Seriously winter sucks. I can't believe how much snow there is. I have ice dams hanging off my house. I also have 2 inches of ice on my stairs, life is not good right now. But seriously I am finding that my friends are splintering into two groups. Those with money and those with less.

The group with money often don't even realize their lifestyle is not the norm. For instance recently they are SAHM who on a snow day hire a babysitter and go to the spa. I was told "we deserve it, spent all day cooped up inside. It was tiring yesterday and we are used our "me" time," since the kids normally go to preschool in the mornings. I was invited but said sorry too expensive a day. My DH hears this story and the invite and said "what part of staying at home with your kids is hiring sitters and going to the spa?" I hear that a lot recently from a group of moms, "we deserve time away from the kids. You should send them full time and get time to yourself. How unaffordable can it be?" I'm seeing a pattern.

Of course on the flip side you see those moms who either stay at home and say they can't do anything. Or who are working and say they have no money because everything goes to childcare. I hear complaints from these friends about how hard it is to do anything. And I find it interesting that mom's who stay at home but with a very tight budget are offended by the suggestion to work. And those who work are horrified at the idea that if didn't work they'd have to live on half or reduced income.

The pattern I'm seeing is that very few people are actually satisfied with what they have or make. Very people understand or realize that the grass is not always greener on the other side or that some people are satisfied with less money.

I mean the people who have money rolling in have no idea how to people live on so little money. You just can't when you are used a certain lifestyle. And those who have less can't fathom spending that much and desire more but aren't willing to make a sacrifice of working more. While dual income families are jealous of those not working but never stop to examine how much less often times the single income families are living on.

I rarely make financial comments to friends because I doubt they would listen. But I really want to shake them all and say be satisfied and realized people make difference choices for different reasons. That if you choose to work then realize you make more than the family who has one breadwinner.

But when will people learn? What would happen if more people were satisfied with what they have?

This month's cleanse has been enlightening. I'll probably keep on the low car and high veggie diet for a while to keep losing weight. But it has been interesting how eating vegetables and fresh fruit can be expensive as eating meat and carbs. Our bill will likely be as expensive more with the slight modifications in diet. What I found interesting is that we barely ate out as well thus far (it should be going up) my BIL is town for thanksgiving. We usually go out to eat and will be hosting him and his girlfriend. So I'm guessing we are breaking the budget.

But on a serious note, I can see why people on a limited budget eat less healthy food. It's cheaper to eat a grilled cheese sandwich and tomato soup than a full veggie meal. Or a bag of goldfish for $1.99 is cheaper than 4 apples or 4 yogurts.

We are going on vacation in a few weeks for a few weeks. Leaving in two weekends till after the new year. We are trying to decide between vrbo in San Diego. One is in Pacific Beach (PB) and other in Ocean Beach (OB). I prefer the PB location and it's great a block from garnet and on the beach. I found it through VRBO, but the guy only advertises on there. You have to mail a check and sign a lease, but you can't book through VRBO. This is the first time its happened to me. I usually book through the vrbo website so I'm nervous and why I'm considering booking the OB site though we don't love the location. I will say the PB rental did offer me to pay through paypal by check.

What have people's experiences been? Should I be worried? My DH prefers booking through vrbo he thinks it gives us an extra layer or protection. Does it?

Also we've gotten a good deal on the mininvan we're renting. We're staying with my in-laws at the VRBO so we need a minivan. And a one way rental of a small car from SD to LA so we can leave for Hawaii. I can't wait to get away from the start of winter and see family (even my in-laws). The only thing left is organizing gifts for family and teachers.

I bought 4 cookie skillets from costco for $18.99 and will give 1 skilled to each teacher with a $20 starbucks gift card. I bought two sets and figure it's a nice christmas gift. I may add in a dry cookie mix I make as well or a book. Last year was cookies and banana bread with SB gift card. The year before was hot chocolate homemade in containers and SB gift card. End of the year gifts were target gift cards and plants. If anyone has creative gifts I'll take it.

I wrote a few weeks ago I was floundering and I still am in some ways. I applied for a couple more positions and my DH has a phone interview with a small company on the west coast. But he's had so many it's hard to get excited. However reading that post, I realized I have to keep moving forward and counting down the months. If we move without jobs it'll be important we purge and minimize.

Plus my DH and I have been talking more. The third child is still on the table perhaps later than I would wish but it is. We've done nothing permanent and we have all our baby stuff. I don't feel complete but I do desire to move and having a third would change our timeline.

On a depressing thought my Dad is 84 has said that he is not coming to visit me again. The trip is too long. So this June my oldest finishes preschool and wanted my parents to see her little ceremony and visit. It'll be warm since it's June so my mom is coming. My Dad said no. So it really is coming now or never. My in-laws have also said they don't want to see us in the winter anymore where we live. It's too far a trip and they feeling the transfers as well.

But with 2014 wrapping up I am trying to think positively. I am trying to be in a good frame of mind. I am definitely purging, losing weight, and just focusing on moving.

Nika brought up a great point about enjoying your money now and later. That it's hard to find the balance between spending and saving. It really is. It's so very easy to get miserly and not spend money. At the same time it's also easy to go off on a spending spree and justify all your spending because you make $X.

So how do you balance spending now versus saving for later?

My thought, it depends on what your priorities are. Do you want to retire early? Do you want to have time with your kids now by staying at home? Or perhaps time later by retiring early? Can you never imagine retiring early because you want a certain lifestyle? Or do you feel obligated if you have kids to pay for college so retirement is out of the question?

There are so many choices and no one right answer. All of the choices above are valid. The choice you make is the one that will lead your financial decisions.

About a year ago when I submitted our financials to MMM blog for a

reader case study, I realized that without knowing it we were mustachians. I also realized and confirmed that my DH and I bought wanted the financial security of being "financially independent" from working. He's still unsure about "retiring early" but my DH is completely on board with having money to say FU to anyone, anytime. To know that if we didn't have an income we'd still make it as a family. How did this realization affect us?

We have never lived up to our income and never been big spenders. But that realization that really living on a budget, curbing our spending, and watching every dollar meant we might be closer to "FIRE = financial independence early retirement" than we ever imagined. We had $462k in retirement, we now have in 9 months $519k. We had $163k taxable and $54k cash, now we have $167k and $58k cash and our liabilities has gone down to $3800 car payment gone in 6 more months. Also according to zillow (very underestimated) our house went from $609k to $647k, I am guessing more like $750k to be honest.

Are we there yet? Projections say no. But I do think that we are definitely closing in fast on a FI number but more importantly we are much more focused on becoming FI to decide what we really want to do.

So my no sugar, meat, dairy = vegan diet is still one. One more week and it's been eye opening. I've lost a little over 10 lbs. We'll see how this eating change goes long term. I am thinking about doing 100 days of real food next. I have to say it's been great for the eating out budget but bad for the grocery budget I believe I'm over our $500/month allotment and it's still another 10 days and a house guest. But our eating out budget is under $50 and I usually budget $300.

Why am I sighing at people? Well first I was in line at whole foods buying a Kabocha Pumpkin (required for diet). Only thing I bought and I was standing in line behind a woman who spent $270. Well it took three credit cards and breaking it down to afford it. Seriously? Why are you shopping at whole paycheck if you can't afford to pay for it?

I was in a discussion about finances (well I nodded) with a couple of friends since one of them just bought a new car. One friend said to the other "I try to pay a little more than the minimum on my CC, and one of my four weekly paychecks goes to my car loan." Okay my eyes nearly fell out considering the woman drives the supersize Mercedes SUV that seats 7 diesel. She said her husband picked it because he loves diesel engines. Seriously 25% of your income a month is for your car? The other woman said it hurt to have a car payment of $1k/month. I was stunned with another sigh.

Finally DH's best friends came over on Sunday for dinner and talked about buying a house he'd just seen over the weekend. His wife lives cross country and is planning on moving in February at 32+ weeks pregnant. He's in a mad rush to buy so he said "how bad would it be to make an offer on a house she hadn't seen?" My answer "if it were my DH, he should next talk to a divorce lawyer because making our biggest financial decision without me would piss me off." He said "but we could lose out on a great house. Another sigh.

But the follow up, two days later he said he'd made a mistake and decided he couldn't buy in that town because the school district was worse than he thought. So rushing to buy a house would have lead to a terrible decision.

Another friend who complained to me about my "staying at home raising kids," said she couldn't afford to do it on her husband's income. At least not the lifestyle they want. They just bought a $10k miele fridge and have $100k worth of cars in their driveway (Acura MDX and Honda Pilot). So it's not like they are hurting financially. Nor would one income be small. It'd just be more modest. I would guess $200k versus $400k. I bit my tongue and didn't say well many people stay at home on less. I can't talk because we make equivalent to their one income. But I know there are many people who make less and stay at home with nice lives.

Finally my BIL is coming with his ex girl friend to our place for thanksgiving. Not his current gf. Good thing I "clarified" so I don't out him. Besides the fact that he got into a car accident a couple days ago and totalled his car and is now saying he wants to buy a BMW. My DH is trying to convince him that he should at least buy it used.

These are the unreal stories around me. There are others but perhaps I should save some for another day.

Uggh, I am trying to plan my winter baby's 5th birthday party. I never thought it would be so expensive and so much trouble. I wish I had a large home to invite people over and just have a lunch or afternoon snack. Last year I would guess I spent around $450 on the party when all was said and done.

So we have 30 kids total including 2 of my own. Yes we have 28 friends we see on a very regular basis (ie weekly). The bulk of which we've known for years. My options thus far. The two jumping places I'd do an afternoon 2-4 pm party and just snacks, cake, and juice again.

1. Jump 1 (same as last year) = $349 for 25 kids + $10/kid = $400
2. Jump 2 = $325 for 24 Kids + $12/kid = $400,
3. Bowling 1 = $8.50 per child = $225 but we need to do pizza and drinks (required by bowling alley), and based on times I'd be feeding adults and kids. So I would guess @ $10 cheese pizza and $7.50 Pitchers I'd be looking at 10 pizzas and 10 pitchers?
4. Bowling 2= $250 for bowling and cake but I think I'm capped @ 20 kids which is the real problem. I can't find kids to cut.
5. $245 Ice Skating + $25 Room Renta + $75 Skate rentals = $345 plus food, and since they are turning 5 I wonder how many would be into it? My DK has been taking skating lessons and skates solo but most haven't taken lessons and I would guess most parents can't ice skate.
6. Children's Museum - $475 for package but unsure if it's firmly capped at 25 kids.

Okay help me out with ideas. There is no way I am fitting 30 kids into my townhouse. There is no way it can be held outdoors in January. For my younger child I do a park and lunch but that's just not an option here.

What should I do?

I am a pretty boring investor. We just buy and hold. We don't actively invest, and I rarely look at the accounts and total them up because it'd probably give me white hairs if I did. Anyway though I guess I'll give some interesting updates.

In January we had $439k in retirement savings, as of today we have $500,444. However when I checked in mid-September (19th) we had $515,884. So it's going up but also come down.

Taxable accounts we started with $195k and are at $228k. Good savings, but more importantly it's not up as high because we've paid off a lot of debt. Starting debt was $27,800 in January 2014. Of which $11,800 was car loans 0.9%, $8k was 0% Credit Cards, and $8k in student loans at 1.9%. So as of today we owe $4900 on one car and $2330 on one 0% CC. We've paid off $20,500 of debt. It was just getting to us so we decided to start minimizing payments even though it didn't make financial sense. Accordingly our NW went up from $839k to $959k. I am hoping the year ends with our retirement solidly above $500k, taxable above $230k, and debt below $5k.

This month I also decided to start a spread sheet on tracking in depth my groceries and eating out. What I found is that I spent a lot more on eating out this month which caused my cooking budget to be super low. Our groceries currently with a week to go is at $282.05. Our eating out $282.28, which I usually don't break $300 (usually closer to $200) and our groceries have been running around $600 a month. And we are eating out at least 1 more meal for sure if not 2 this next week. Yikes!

I guess it's just that we ate out with friends more than usual. We ate out 7 times with friends so far this month and are planning on meeting up on Tuesday again. Socializing is tough on the pocket book.

I can't complain about this year. I think I may keep a running tally of my groceries and eating out which is easier in excel than mint. I also now stand in self-checkout lines at costco and bjs and track what is home stuff and what is groceries.

So how do you know someone is cheap versus frugal? Well I'm going to tell you a story. You're probably going LAL why are you friends with this person? And my answer will be I'm trying to shed her but it's slow going.

So Drusilla (nickname) is dropping her two children off at another friend's house (the Commandant). Drusilla sees Tabasco (commandant's kid) and Skipper (mine) and "says why are they here? I thought the commandant was taking them away," so her two kids (Gus and Jack) could be watched by Commandant's teenage kid Big E. She brought one $5 Cheese pizza and said to Big E "don't feed Tabasco and Skipper, I want the leftovers."

Um okay can you say rude? Hello? No pizza for the babysitter? And you can't spare a piece for my kid and Commandant's kid? We've feed your kids before. It's one of those moments where I realized the cheap Drusilla reigned again.

Also when I said I was buying Drusilla's kid an outfit for the second birthday I was told not to she wanted cash. So I put the screws to her and said it was to match my DK #2. And I wanted to see since she was consigning all the other clothes the Commandant gave her from Tabasco! OMG. How could she sell the clothes that were given to her? I know this because she has NO matching outfits for her kiddo which I know she should have since I have it for Skipper and saved it.

May the shedding begin.

Edited: I said I would like to buy a gift and the mother said "give me money." Not great thank you so much, and turned around and returned it. NO, it was a blatant ask. Second, I found out after our mutual friend was asked last year when she gave a gift to return it and instead give Drusilla money. She returned the gift and didn't give anything. The commandant was a bit miffed at being told please take your gift with the gift receipt back and give cash instead.

Second, Drusilla asked Big E (babysitter and Commandant's older child) to not eat the pizza and pack up leftover. Perhaps I'm wrong but since when do people NOT feed the babysitter? Fine don't feel other people's kids. But the babysitter?

Third, there is no way it's okay to consign people's clothes they give you? But perhaps it is.

Okay remember the $50 lunch bag? Well I now have a conversation about the $50 North Face Fleece. A friend (Mrs A) says to me I got a great deal on the fleece my daughter is wearing from Macy's. I got it for $50! My eyes bugged out and I said "$50?" I said "I didn't spend $50 on my columbia fleece I've had for over 5 years and your kid will outgrow it in 1 season." Mrs A "but for things they are going to use I believe in buying quality."

Now before you think I'm being a bit harsh Mrs A is BROKE. Big fat BROKE. I am not kidding. I mean IRS is garnishing her bank accounts. She talks about using a weekly paycheck to pay for this credit card and that car payment so it doesn't bounce. Thankfully she rents her apartment from her mom so she can't always afford $1500/month rent and complains about it for a 4 bedroom apartment. Going rate is between $4-5k where we live!

And in case you wondered I loaned her money $20 because she had no money in her checking account to get her kids into the indoor playspace (3 kids). I felt bad they drove there and she realized she had no money.

But she shops for high end clothes, she only buys food at Whole Foods, and she drives a $75k diesel SUV Mercedes (it's the large one). I have pointed out in the past that she needs to talk to the lawyer about the garnishments, her answer is well "D my husband said he'd take care of it."

She's super lucky her parents are loaded and can bail her out (ie living for basically free and expecting an inheritance, yes she's said as much). But still she's spiraling financially out of control and another friend said you can go to jail if they are garnishing your wages. I have no idea if that's true but said friend watches Real Housewives of NJ and said that Theresa Guidace is going to jail for tax stuff. I mean who screws with the IRS?

I don't know but it's like waiting for an accident to happen. And I may never see my money again (consider it a donation) but I figure it's the nature of the beast. She's a nice person and I do feel sad when I see her.

In a weird note I realized my food budget is way off. I used to say $400/month which according to my old tracking in excel it was around $400/month. Now it's between $500-600/month which I suspected because I spend around $125-$150/week. I can't believe how expensive food is getting or my kids are eating more. Granted two kids drinking organic milk a gallon a week each is running me around $50-60/month alone! But Geez.

I have a friend I've known since pre-kids, and she's recently had her third child. She's been on maternity but is due to go back soon. She made a comment to me recently about how this is the first time she's had regrets about going back to work. I said it's good for her. She loves what she does.

But she admitted she start looking at downsizing her house. That she wondered if they could do it on her husband's very generous salary $200k, but she shook her head and said no. She said "i'm too in love with my stuff." She's got $100k in cars sitting in her driveway probably paid cash for. And another $100k in student loans. She is pretty sure she wouldn't be happy staying at home. But she did question whether she would be happier if she moved to a cheaper house? Or drove a cheaper car?

Working/staying at home, kids/no kids, early retirement/or not; it doesn't matter. I guess what is the saddest part is that fact that no matter what you earn, knowing you are dependent on that paycheck can be depressing. Realizing that to fund your lifestyle (whatever you choose it to be) is at risk because you need to work. Not that you are choosing to work.

Now we're not at that position to be financially independent. We do need an income, but at the same time I know we are moving towards not needing it and not worrying. I wonder if it's not more stressful knowing you make a lot, but have to make that much because you are used to living very well? In the sense that if you don't make much perhaps you are just used to living on less? And it's never on your radar that you'll be able to drive a mercedes SUV. But for some who could afford it and do, perhaps that's your one indulgence.

Yeah okay I can't believe I get to hear these conversations. So I'm sitting at playground and we're eating lunch and one friend says to another "I love that lunch bag, I've been looking for those." I say "it's cute".

They start discussing it, it's the stainless steel lunch bag on sale from pottery barn for

$47. My friend says they are on sale I should buy one. I choke on my food and say um it's a little pricey.

Now I bought my sandwich kits from Costco 3 for $14. And I got thermos on sale for $8.99. I send my kids with a lot of hot foods but still it was a nice kit.

I don't get it. I know I live in a very upper middle class area. I know these people make good money. But still I find a lot of these things they are willing to spend their money on unfathomable. A lunch bag for $50? I just bought a new backpack and lunch bag with free extra lunch bag for $12 from toys r us. It's frozen and my kiddo loves it.

I'm not sure how much my DH and I would have to earn to for me to comfortable spending that sort of money without blinking. Calling $47 lunchbox on sale a good deal.

I probably need to be independently wealthy like some of the people I know. Those who already have $3-5M to be really comfortable spending like that. But otherwise I don't think so. I'll write more about this later. Because I have more interesting stories about money at the "1% working people, not the 1% independently wealthy."

Overall I know what I spend monthly and we stay within our "monthly limits." I get $5k/month to spend on everything like mortgage, groceries, gas, eating out, utilities, preschool, activities. That's not the problem.

I've been using Mint since about March and trying hard to reconcile all spending. I've actually been pretty good. So where I fail? Well trying to figure out my actual budget categories.

I find easy to keep a running tally of my monthly spending by looking at my CC charges throughout the month. A lot of our spending is predictable and the same. What isn't is gas for cars, travel, and groceries/eating out. The travel I can sort of guess since we do 2 big trips a year. That I can't change more than looking for the best deals.

But groceries and eating out? I was pretty sure I knew what I spent monthly but I think I'm wrong. I'm obviously under budget monthly big picture. But I can't break down my category to $400 groceries and $400 eating out because I buy clothes and home supplies(paper plates, dish soap, etc), shoes, books, etc. Stuff that isn't groceries basically gets stuck in grocery budget so I haven't been able to get under my $400 I think I spend. Instead I've been blowing the budget category.

But at the same time what I thought I spent eating out was less, but when I started tracking every penny I thought it was because I spent so much more on groceries that we ate out less. Now I'm not so sure.

Overall we're not in terrible shape anyway you cut it. And until recently I've never been a true "budget" follower. I am naturally frugal and so is my DH. We've always had the meet A, B, C saving goals and we can spend D-Z. And since we've met we've done more big picture annual budgets where we say we have to save X amount and we have Y to live on (hence the $5k).

But now I want to see our spending to project our true future budget. I want to know where it goes really. I mean I have a firm handle on a couple of categories like insurance, mortgage, cable, cell, etc. But what are we spending on prescriptions? What are we spending on dr co-pays? I need to figure this out for our flex spend this coming year. We've always maxed it out since having kids because we just have had stuff come up (this year my eye surgery and dental). But we should be done with "major" work, what's our baseline? I have no idea.

How do people track every penny? When you have clothes, food, home supplies on the same receipt? What about being reimbursed by friends?

It is omg $3.50 a day for a school lunch. Geez. That is $17.50/week! Eek. Talking with friends whose kids are starting kindergarden both thought it was cheap. But were tempted by the price because it's less than what they spend daily to pack lunch.

I freaked out that they think they spend $5/day to pack lunch for their kid. But then I pointed out what they are packing is that expensive because NO WAY IN HELL is a public school going to give kids what they are giving their kids. I'm going to guess to make the school lunch it would cost $1. They were horrified, but I'm pretty sure I could do it.

First off milk is not organic horizon boxes, probably regular milk. Second they aren't doing Annie's organic cheddar bunnies, probably no snack to save money. Third the fruit given is probably not organic be it apple, grapes, etc. Fourth, the meat in sandwiches or entrees is definitely NOT applewood farms organic deli meat or any sort of organic chicken/beef/pork. Fifth the bread is definitely not whole grain, no HFCS wheat versus plain white bread. Finally for sure they aren't giving their kid yogurt smoothies at $1.25 each everyday!

So of course lunches for kids are $5 a day when you spend $1.25 yogurt, $1 milk box, $1 cheddar bunnies. But seriously I pointed out you can't compare what you pack with what you are buying. To be paying $3.50 for what they give you is a lot! I think it can be done for $1, but no it is cheaper than what you pack.

But if you pack $5 100% organic lunches now, how can you reconcile paying $3.50 for non-organic lunches? I don't get people.

I pack lunch to save money and because what I pack I am certain is healthier and more fresh than what my kids would be served. I know I do it for less than $3.5 and with some organics like milk and fruit. People nowadays have no idea how to cook, no idea how to grocery shop, and probably never read labels.

Is school lunches cheap where you are? Do you buy or pack? FWIW my DH 95% of the time packs a lunch as do it. It's being frugal and being lazy to go out.

So I loaned a friend a few dvds. My DH mentioned today that some of the DVDs were in poor condition and scratched up. He's the control freak and didn't say anything when I loaned them. And when I loaned them to her she said the kids wouldn't touch it and they'd be returned in great condition.

So now my DH wants me to talk to her. So obviously I will tell her. But what should I say? I guess that's the end of lending her anything.

I don't know if my DH are on the same page for "early" retirement. We certainly are more in line with spending, budgets, lifestyle. Although we aren't 100% in lock step but what couple is? I'd say he's naturally very frugal (bordering on cheap) but I'm not a naturally spend person period.

Example I got my Dyson he still thinks it's nuts to buy a vacuum cleaner for $300 versus he thought my budget would be $150. Now does the vacuum make my life easier? yes! My house does feel cleaner. So I say it's worth it.

Anyway my DH recently had me borrow book on tape "four hour work week." I was surprised. When I've brought up living frugally, moving somewhere cheaper, buying a house cash he's freaked out. The idea of retiring with sooner because we live simpler I think he's coming around. My DH was mustachian before it became a "word".

But reading Mr Money Mustache retired with $800k in 2006 with one kid, meant the reality set in. I think he's thinking about it, wondering if we could do it. Expenses without our mortgage is very much "mustachian". So where do we need to be in five years? What if we could move buy a home cash with our equity and then live on what we've saved? We'd right now be close to Mr MM. But a few extra years with our extra kid or two?

I hope this is a turning point where my DH starts to believe we can do this. That don't need to work forever. It also helps I recently made a friend whose a single mother, who retired from private equity and supports herself royally. And she herself has said by living "simply" ie $100k/year she can still manage by watching her spending. She eats out, pays for preschool, etc. Life is about choices.

So I am pretty exhausted as I write this. This is probably yet another straw about why tying your yoke to others is exhausting.

I wasn't blogging when this happened but in January of this year we had a pipe burst in our neighbors and flood their unit and the unit below. They were on vacation and had left the heat on but the pilot light went out apparently on the gas insert fireplace. They had left on the central furnace but it wasn't enough.

My DH was the only person home and not only turned off the water, but he shop-vac the water, drained, cleaned, called and paid the plumber and fan drying guys. He truly works just as hard as I do on our place (in case I sound like I'm complaining, we both break out backs).

Anyway because of this water damage loss our master condo policy was not renewed and is ending August 10th. I've been in contact with our current agent and calling multiple agents regarding getting new insurance. Based on condo docs we need to get something in place and it can't be crap. And I've been looking into our state insurance if all else fails.

Besides that I've been calling the people who installed our fence to come out and repair the gate that broke off. And I've dealt with the tree removal people and gas lines. I'm just tired. My DH does the bill pay and manages the books. I manage everything associated with the maintenance.

But it's exhausting. I got an email 3 months the gate broke off. No suggesting they take care of it. Rather "deal" with it tone.

I am just done. Whoever said condo living is easier hasn't live like this.

So I bought a Britax Frontier 90 from Kohl's. They are having a sale where if you use their CC you get 30% off with BEACH30, plus it can stack with the BRITAX30 coupon so the carseat I bought which is running $269 on amazon I got for $223. $329 original - $30 Britax coupon code - 30% off = $210 + tax = $223. Plus I earned $40 Kohl's cash and going through shop discover an extra 5% cash back.

I've been waiting for a triple dip deal like this. And the carseat is a necessity, not a want. My DK1 has outgrown her convertible seats and this is the harnassed booster.

Anyway I'm toying with convincing my DH to allow me to buy the Dyson vacuum. We also need to buy him a new rechargable toothbrush.

But I can get the dyson I have been eyeing for $320 out of pocket and I can possibly get 5% shopdiscover. It's on sale for $499 @ kohl's - $15 off - 30% BEACH30 - $40 Kohl's cash and we're looking at $320!

I made also posted I was up to $275 from surveys and sales I think I can perhaps come up with a "credit" to take advantage of this deal.

I have a lot to be thankful for and I'll try to post pictures but gotta find the camera. We went camping for the first time with the kids and it was great. A bit hardcore for me and honestly I think my DH overstretched a bit but we survived and I'm proud/surprised.

We had to semi-backpack in stuff, used a wagon, and didn't take a stroller. Carrying an almost 2 year old who fell asleep while we walked to the campsite was not fun. As my DH dragged/carried everything and I semi chased our 4 year old. We did have running water but we had to carry out trash and brought everything. But getting away was lovely and the scenery was awesome. Same thing happened the second day since we didn't have the stroller, the toddler fell asleep and I ended up hiking carrying her. I ended up stopping and sitting with 25 lb dead weight. Lesson learned. Although we did get mad props from other campers for going with two very young children. Note to self, camping with kids is a lot harder than when you are younger!

But it was a lovely weekend. Kids had fun. Now my DH wants to do a kayaking trip with the kids. Park one car 30 miles down river and kayak/camp. I'm not sure what to do. Advice peeps please. We love kayaking and do it a lot with the kids, but I am hesitating because I wonder if again something we didn't think about with a 2 year old will make the trip bad.

FWIW, my DH doesn't think we're at all outdoorsy type people. He grew up backpacking and camping a lot more than we're doing to the kids. He used to be part of an annual winter all guy camping trip, where they dig out an igloo and sleep in -40C or something stupid. I don't know why they did/do it. And he biked across eastern canada in his college days with a friend. Or backpacking for a week. So him pushing us is not surprising, me going along with it is.

I grew up camping only at the beach. My idea of camping is a pickup truck with bedding, lots of food, bonfire, and friends. I had camped once before I met my DH if you call getting drunk in the desert "camping". And I will admit to being terrified of bears and wild animals.

So suggestions for camping or easy trips might help me as well. I have to dig up pictures.

Another reader pulled out the negative comments on the MMM post and many did say get on the same page. But at the same time more than few also said happiness needs to be felt by everyone.

So I decided to address a few things. I know that I will be happier living by family and friends. I know that I will be happier not sitting on a plane 12+ hours. I am not unhappy with the kids but I know I can be happier.

Second, the 3rd kid we are still wrestling with it. I showed him the post and he had to admit we can afford the third child and he needs to stop using finances as a defense. He isn't sure anymore. He was sure last year and I wasn't ready. He doesn't want another now, we've hit the sweet spot, and I am ready. It will be a conversation we keep having. We haven't done anything drastic so I figure we're in limbo. I don't know when we'll know if we are done, but that's something I can concede without feeling unhappy. IF he's really done then we're done. I've always said "a no outweighs the yes". But at the same time we haven't done the permanent change to prevent kids. So I think we're on the fence. Perhaps I'm wrong, but he's always agreed we'd do the snip when we were done. And we haven't done it or planned on it. I would really like a 3rd child but if he doesn't have it in him, it's okay. And perhaps he may change his mind in another 12 months but I'll be the no again. We had always been ambivalent on the number of kids we'd have. We said we'll see how it goes and when it felt right we'd stop.

Third, when I did the case study we had talked about moving but hadn't examined what it would take to move without jobs. That case study was a wake up call about whether we even could retire early. That was never in our "agenda" we just assumed we'd work until at least 55. Now the reality is it's possible and we both think so.

And if we had an update on the case study? The most interesting aspect I think is that my DH didn't get his promotion in March. He is pretty unhappy with his job and wonders if it's meant to be. He doesn't know if he'll get a promotion in March 2015, and feels he deserves one. If we weren't in the process of moving, but decided we'd stay he'd right now be looking to jump ship to another company.

He likes what he does. However he feels it took him 5 years for his first promotion and that was a very long time. It's now been 4 years and due to the length of the first promotion, he's definitely on the "high" end of where he should be. On the pay scale of his pay grade two more years and he'd be "maxed" out on his scale which makes him unhappy. This we calculated about 2 weeks ago.

I haven't influenced these comments, yes I'm not thrilled, but I certainly didn't say his job was bad. He's disappointed with his career trajectory and wonders if he needs to switch. And that more than many other things has given him a huge push to agree we should move.

So the question rose why stay where we live if he isn't happy in his job? What is holding us here? Nothing. Would he be happy if he had a promotion? Yes. But it didn't happen. If it doesn't happen next year, I think that's his reasoning behind moving next June 2015. I believe he'll be so disappointed that it'll be hard to endure working at his job.

Also in the past 4 years he's had reorganization 4 times and this time he doesn't like his direct supervisor. He doesn't feel they have the same vision. He certainly didn't feel that way in 2012 with a different boss. He was happier. Now he's not. They had another reorg, and he wasn't reassigned and not thrilled with the fact he expected to be.

So like everything in life, things change like the wind. He loves what he does. But he's not exactly thrilled with the situation he's in now. He used to love it more, and perhaps he could again. But if we were in a different circumstance he wouldn't be staying with his company.

So all signs point to exiting where we live. Right now I am about to contact another realtor because we had a realtor contact us about selling our place. They want us to come up with a number and I don't want to "lowball or be unrealistic" about what I could get. This would be hard selling and renting, but at the same time we'd be locking in equity and gaining flexibility.

And I think we need to stockpile cash like MM said. I don't know how long until we find jobs if we are unemployed when we move. That makes me nervous.

I've talked about LBYM not being easy and it's not. And I've said that we've put certain things on hold because it makes financial sense. What I haven't discussed is the why.

So in 23 months we'll be shaking the dust from our boots of where we live and moving without jobs. If we had a job offer we'd move sooner. It would decrease the uncertainty and make moving palatable.

But why? To buy a house? To gain a king size bed? Nope.

The real underlying reason that Another Reader (yes I'm calling you out) is to be closer to our friends and family. Another Reader are you 3k and 6k miles away from family and friends? Are you not withing driving distance of any family? Have you ever had a child and knocked on a neighbors door at 1 am to watch older child and made it to the hospital with 20 minutes to spare? Have you ever take a cab to the hospital with a sick child so one parent can stay at home with the other in the middle of the night? Have you ever panicked and realized that if anything happened to you, the soonest a family member could get to you is 12 hours maybe?

We live at least 1 connection flight away from either sets of parents. My step-siblings are flights 4 hour flights away, my BIL is 5-6 hours cross country flights away. Grandparents at least 24 hours. That's dropping everything and hopping on the next flight.

I am not selfish, I am talking about the reality of being alone. Of being a SAHM and sick and calling my DH to come home because I'm vomiting and unable to walk my dog and am too dizzy to walk. I worry about my two kids and because I'm sick I can't ASK another mom friend to put herself and her kids at risk of being sick. And YES they've said no they don't want to catch what I or my kids have had.

I've experienced living with family, my BIL lived with us for 4 months during a period of job hunting. It was great to have help and family around. I've got family and friends up and down the West Coast and so does my DH. We'd be a flight away from his parents and mine. Actually my in-laws just visited before the 4th and they said it would be easier if we lived on a direct flight from where they lived, said wistfully not accusing or demanding. Say what you will but I would love to be closer to them and that is the driving desire to move.

The house, bed, etc is all material things that will occur when we move forward with our lives. If we choose to stay put we would buy those things and get a more permanent home. But we've decided that's not the plan. And it's possible we're moving to the SF Bay area even more expensive than where we are, and will be stuck with a townhouse or a more expensive mortgage.

But at the same time we'll have help from our families with our kids. We would have less worries about something happening to us. Our children would know their grandparents intimately and extended family; and if the price is living in an even more expensive COLA so be it. We'll make it work and make sacrifices. I'm NOT willing to make those same sacrifices to live where I LIVE now. There aren't the same benefits to living in a HCOLA for a job. For family? Yes. Just for a job?

I've had a case study on MMM. The advice was MOVE. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/02/23/reader-case-study-going-west-for-early-retirement/

Ideally we'd like to live in Seattle or Portland. My DH's top two choices. I'd prefer San Diego or SF, but finances play a role and that bumps those lower. He missed the seasons when we lived in San Diego. I don't care for seasons but I like the cost of living in Seattle and Portland.

This move might be tough for us financially but I truly believe it'll pay dividends in the long term. My DH agreed to it without a JOB, because he knows companies are fickle. He was laid off from his job where we are 3 months after we moved from San Diego to the East Coast. So companies suck and have no loyalty.

But we decided jointly in April 2014 that we were really going to buckle down and start to save to move. We were going to try and cut expenses more and take the risk. My DH was willing to go June 2015, but I decided that we could afford to sacrifice and endure our situation for 2 years to buffer our financial position.

The few things I want and am saving for, I'm starting to think as little rewards as I wait to settle down permanently. As I wait for the opportunity for us to put down roots and really settle.

But we're ready for life's curveballs. We decided if DH ever lost his job again we'd sell our house and be off in a bloody minute.

So the plan? List house in Spring 2016. Sell it no matter what. Move with job to west coast or move without and hope for the best. Job prospect 1 is post-doc for me. Prospect 2 i am hoping to become an enrolled agent and do taxes as a career change. Prospect 3 for DH take an entry level business position. Prospect 4 take any job.

Fearful? Yes. Trying to accomplish goal? Definitely. Perhaps it is selfish to move. But at the same time nearly 10 years ago we agreed we'd live out west by our families. We decided this move was temporary or we'd have ended our relationship. It was a very deliberate decision and one that we did not take lightly.

And Snafu point about leaving a job you like. What job do you love forever? I have only pointed out the truth to DH. We are stay put for him to like his job for "now"? He's already this year dissatisfied without a promotion. He feels he's been put over. His reason for moving next year? If he doesn't get a promotion he'll be very unhappy. If he's unhappy then he should look for a job where we live? Or should we just move and take the risk? My opinion? Leave. We aren't staying for anything other than him liking his job. And what happens if he doesn't like his next job? We stayed for what?

I don't mind living below my means, but it's not easy. This is to reiterate to those who are getting out of debt and think afterwards it will be. It's not. I like my life, I don't like where I live.

So I am unhappy. I am unhappy but trying to change the situation. First, when we moved into our townhouse my DH made a deal with me that if we suffered with our old furniture when we moved (back to the west coast) and bought a SFH, we'd buy all the furniture we wanted. He said it doesn't make sense to buy stuff that may not fit or won't be worth shipping in 6 years. Well it's been 9 years and it's hard to still see our same stuff. And yes I've been setting aside money for new stuff. I have $15k saved so far. Delayed gratification for sure. So what do I want?

1. King Size Bed (won't fit up 3rd story staircase, thank you 1880s victorian and no window big enough to shove it through). Our neighbors had to put their king bed on the second floor and suck up a queen to make the hairpoint closed turn on our staircases to the master which was a converted attic.

2. Dining Table - I'll be honest I don't think we could fit a bigger one in our house, so I shouldn't complain.

3. Couch - At least the kids will be older and it won't get as dirty and we may not have dogs at that point.

4. Dressers for us and the kids - ikea used stuff or hand me downs. Kids are also in plastic bins since their closets don't fit real hangers. The closets are too shallow. Maybe even bedroom sets

5. Headboard - for us at least.

6. TV - move our single HDMI tv to our bedroom and get a new family tv. We bought ours when we moved in 2005 and are waiting until we move again.

7. New Grill - DH replaced parts on ours but is also waiting to dump our when we move (he's practicing delayed gratification too). I'm going to get him a grill and tandoori oven he's dreamed about when we move. And install a gas line to his grill ($1k well worth it).

These are a few of the things I've on my list of items to get when we know how big our next house will be. It could all be moot depending on where we live.

So what else am I waiting for? Well to buy a SFH. To see the size and layout. Stuff I want?

1. 3 bd/2ba - I want a master bath or space to install one if it's only 3/1.5ba. Older capes make it impossible.
2. garage attached if possible, detached is okay.
3. patio/deck where we can sit and have a grill. Current deck adequate to have grill and smoker but not much space else. I think it's 5x5.
4. yard - potential to be fenced, more than 5000 sq ft, preferably above 10000 sq ft and no more than 1 acre.
5. basement - potential to be playspace for kids, or family room for kids.
6. Under $1M.

That's it. Move in ready would be awesome but some work is fine. I'd like to be able to make it energy efficient, but as long as it's 1960s and newer i'll be satisfied. I know the wiring will work, there will be insulation, and we won't have to deal old homes. I HATE charm now. I don't even care what style is it, just as long as it's 2000 sq ft and in good shape.

So things on my list I want now but am "earning" with extra money, and have considered buying. FWIW, my DH never says no. Actually he tells me all the time if I want something buy it. I usually don't shop and spend so if I want something I probably have looked at deals and considered it a long time.

1. Dyson DC59 $549, used to be on my when we move list, but I'm tired of vacuuming and sweeping so much and not being satisfied with our really old vacuum.
2. Wustof knives - debating buying set or each piece at a time, opinions? I have a great set of calphalon cookware that I use DAILY. Best investment ever. I want the same out of my knives. Any other brands to check out?
3. Le Crueset Dutch Oven - borrowed my neighbors a few times this year. Considering Staub as well.
4. Slow cooker - got mine in 2000 for $10 black friday. I have a really small one and need a bigger one. Is the all clad worth it?
5. Cookie sheets - can't decide between sheets and mat.

So I have a couple of things I can get now and earn. But the majority of stuff it just makes sense to wait. But it is hard to feel like life is "on hold." And you are waiting for it to happen and start.

Yes living below your means often means you have nothing material to show for it. Often times it means passing on a fancy car, cool vacation, eating out, fancy groceries, branded clothes, or even furniture. It is hard and in some ways I think it gets harder as you get older.

When I was in my 20s with DH none of our friends had money or things. They weren't buying houses, they weren't driving luxury cars yet, they were getting of school, getting careers started, paying back loans, etc. Most people were young and broke and starting out. But then the 30s/40s hit and people began starting families and making a real salary instead of entry level earnings.

I recently turned 35 and started blogging again and began reading posts about getting out of debt and turning over a new leaf and LBYM. There are many posts about the monotony and struggle of savings.

I'm about to admit it's HARD. Right now and probably for the past 4 years we've been on cruise control. We've been cruising along saving at the same rate and pace actually putting more aside in our taxable savings, but accruing some debt (car loans I want gone this year). But this year a couple of things happened. I realized that we are potentially early retirees or financially independent couple. But at the same time I realized we also haven't upsized our lifestyle at all in a LONG time.

We bought our townhouse with plans for having kids and we had them. We have the same furniture pretty much we bought in our 1 bd condo, $100 dinner table, $20 coffee table, $50 desk from IKEA, $40 dressers from IKEA. We haven't bought any really adult furniture, except our foam mattress from costco 5 years ago. We did upgrade our cars to 4 family sedans instead of compact cars we had, but base model and used for the other. So in little ways our life has improved but nothing noticeably drastic.

So I'm going to buck the "mustachian" trend and ADMIT that I do find it hard. I find it hard to stay the course and LBYM. I find it hard to not compare and wonder what it would be like to buy a couch that cost 4 figures or a dinner table that seats more than 4 people. Or lusting after a mininvan but hesitating because even used it's a lot.

So no it doesn't get easier after getting out of debt. According to Mr Money Mustache saving 15% of your income only gets you to retirement in 43 years, saving 50% = 17 years. I can agree because I recently calculated our savings rate at around 50% of "net" = 17 years and that's about dead on for when I project we'll hit "Financial Independence" at age 45, perhaps sooner.

It's hard to save monthly without seeing any returns. To look online at other people's posted budgets even and realize that people "take home" more than we do but also feel like they have nothing to show for it. I feel like we live a very frugal middle class lifestyle because our money is siphoned away into savings before I even see it. Yet I also know mentally truly "middle" class aren't able to save anything.

So no it doesn't get easier. To quote Dave Ramsey "you should be debt free in 7 years is Bull SHIT!" Saving 15% puts you on the path to retire in 40 years. You still have other expenses to save for. You are living like no one else because you are living with a safety net. But to be truly financially free takes a lot more time and sacrifice.

What keeps me moving forward even when it sucks? That I'd rather be where I am today in less debt than I was yesterday. Everyday and choice moves me closer to the goal and though it feels like I'm treading water, I'm still ahead than digging myself into more debt.

So have a little faith fellow LBYM. It's not easy and we often lack material goods or experiences. But would you rather be here or where you were 3 months ago?

Over the weekend I went through hell trying to find a deal to rent a mininvan. On Tuesday we went on a overnight with my in-laws who are visiting to a resort area. Got a great deal on a midweek, just before season hotel. The small problem was that we either had to drive two cars or rent a minivan large enough to hold 6.

Well the best prices I found were $91/day through normal rentals both hotwire or carrentals.com. I did see zipcar for $88/day but turned into $98/day including taxes and gas a day. I shuddered at the prices. But then I decided to google car rentals from car companies and up popped toyota, ford, and lincoln mercury.

I called around Monday and was told I could do it since it was mid week for $65/day = $70/day including taxes. Score. Mind you this was farther out and in the city it was $95/day. But still for $140 for 2 days I feel we got a steal. Car dealerships never come up on searches by the way.

So did I save money? Probably broke even. We spent $65 for the minivan so $50 savings on gas. We paid for parking at the beaches $15 x 2 = $30 (only 1 car versus 2), parking $10 in lots = $90 at least not quite $140, but we did save on wear and tear on two cars so we probably broke even.

Even so next time if I can't score lower than rental companies I'll be sure to check car dealerships. And the bigger savings, not buying a minivan just for the times we need to seat 6. Of course a third kid would push us over the edge.

So I want a new vacuum cleaner. I do not need one, but my standup vacuum cleaner is 12 years old and probably should be replaced because it smells when it vacuums. I have a Eureka Boss Smart Vac. However I don't use it as much as my lightweight 9 year old dirt devil corded handheld. It's basically a dustbuster with a handle. I bought it in 2005 on a black friday doorbuster from walmart for $8. It's semi broken with the suction piece unable to stay in unless it's being used. However it's still usable, hence why I use it.

Anyway I probably sweep or vacuum everyday 2-3x/day. There is so much dirt/sand in the winter from the dog, and sand/dust from the kids in the summer I can't stand it. I obsess about it and can feel it even in the winter through socks.

So last black friday I told my DH I wanted a light handheld. He said sure go get what you want, but I couldn't bring myself to spend $200-300 on a dyson. But yesterday after dinner at a friend's house I used her Dyson DC59 animal which is $399 on Amazon. I would love that but it's just too much for me to spend. I looked and the lower/older model is $219 reconditioned factory or $259 new.

I am definitely lusting after this vacuum cleaner. The problem is how to afford it? What can I sacrifice or how can I make extra money? Now it'd be easy to use the focus group money I'll be making shortly, $100 on Monday and $125 next month. But I think that's too easy. Maybe I should have a goal that if I can sell stuff on craigslist or a consignment store, I can buy the new vacuum. That would be a lesson in getting rid of stuff to get something new as well as delayed gratification.

How do you deal with wants versus needs?

Drive car until wheels fall off. But sell if it doesn't fit your needs, not wants, NEEDS!

Strangely enough my mom and MIL have both driven cars for about 20 years. My mom is still driving her 96 Toyota Avalon with about 90k miles. And my MIL last car was a 86 Diesel Jetta she sold in 2006 with 200km because she has trouble seeing and she rarely drives period.

As it is in 2012 I got rid of my 1st car a 98 Corolla bought in 99. I felt pain in my heart as I let of the old me. The college me. The young, fun, cute, and carefree me. I drive a 2010 subaru outback for my two kids. Not having a car payment did a huge boost to our budgets. My DH and I both hadn't had car payments since 2003 until 2010.

DH got the Outback in 2010 when his 2000 Ford Focus basically burst into flames. Yeah that American car experience was not a good one. And with one kid I drove my corolla until we had our 2nd kiddo.

Then my DH wanted a bigger, safer car. I would have preferred him driving my corolla but he wanted something bigger. So we compromised and bought a used 2006 hyundai sonata with low mileage. It had side airbags, latch, and abs. I mean it did hurt my frugal heart but alas marriage is about compromise.

Now we have two car payments due to be paid off 8/2015. $385 and $200 a month. Ugh. And we spent $10k and $20k on our cars. I can guess how much monthly people are paying driving around in $50k+ cars. It truly is a money pit.

But if everything goes to plan...In another year or two we'll buy a minivan and replace the Sonata without a car payment. We started setting aside the $400/month to replace/repair our cars ever 6 years. And the subaru will be inherited by our kid when she turns 16.

I have to say I'm still torn about used versus new. Our used car has been decent but in the 2 years needed calipers done along with brakes and rotors. I don't know if its because it's a hyundai versus a toyota/subaru so the reliability is the issue, instead of it being used.

But the minivan? We'll see where we are financially. I'd like to pay off the cars this summer but we'll see.

Do you know how much your health insurance premiums have risen over the years? I was just looking at old pay stubs and I can't believe how much they have gone up. As a couple from 2005-2010 we had seen some large increase 25% in 1 year. I am floored. Because the overall dollar amount isn't large I haven't paid as much attention as I should have. But looking now I'm in shock.

As a couple
2005 $46 per pay period (26)= $1196
2006 $46 = $1196
2007 $32 = $832, they switched providers
2008 $40 = $1040, 25% increase
2009 $42 = $1096 , 5% increase

However in 2010 we had our first child and moved to the family plan in medical health insurance.

2010 $46 Couple (moved to family) $82 = $2132, 9% increase as a couple, so I assume 9% family.
2011 $84 = $2184, 2.5% increase
2012 $96 = $2496, 14.2% increase
2013 $101 = $2626, 5.2% increase
2014 $119 = $3094, 17.8% increase

Wow we've seen some serious increases. Apparently the insurance company raises it one year A LOT and then not by much the next year. In the grand scheme of things $3100 in premiums for our family is not a lot. But we still have to pay $20/visit copays. When everything is said and done we spend around $5k with premium and copays.

Is it worth it? Yes because employer sponsored programs are much better than what you can buy as an individual. But still when I see a 17.8% increase I cringe knowing that our 3% merit raise is really not going as far.

I went online to shop for a family of four with $2k individual/$4k family deductibles; Maximum annual OOP $6350 individual/$12,700 family, with $50 co-pay after deductible is $596.71/month! Ouch. Okay so I guess we'd better keep working or at least wait and see how health insurance works out. I mean we could easily have a higher deductible but it doesn't appear to be an option where we live.

Mr Money Mustache pays for a family of 3 $240/month HDHP. BUT where he lives is substantially cheaper. It really does vary because in the comment section of his post many commentors are unable to get their premiums for individual policies that low. So YMMV in buying your own. I can't believe that ours would be nearly 2x what his is monthly.

Our dental costs $20.90 a pay period = $543.4/year. The question is would it be cheaper for us to self insure? Not really with cleanings for a family of 4 (well 3) 2x a year at $100-150/pop we are looking at a minimum of $600 OOP at a minimum. And this year like last I still am having an implant crown put on. Which by the way the insurance company doesn't want to pay to put on! Arrgh.

Our vision is $6.54 a pay period = $170/year which used to be easily reached with me getting contacts every year (got a year for free with insurance). But I'm not sure now it's still worth it with a check up being $49 elsewhere. But for $170 maybe it's worth the peace of mind.

I am still just floored at how fast health insurance appears to be going up. Way above raises and cost of living inflation. And it's still a lot cheaper than buying our own.

My neighbors both work and have 1 child, 3 months older than my 4 year old. They play great together and she's a lovely girl. I enjoy watching her and she's a truly great kid. My neighbors are nice people. They both have MBAs and are a couple of years older than my DH and I. We live connected by a wall and my 4 year went to school and once said "the little girl living behind the wall, I play with her all the time," to the teachers. When I explained we all had a good laugh.

So you can imagine this family probably makes double what my DH makes. At least that's what my DH and I believe. So $400k/year? Probably but at the minimum $300k.

So what happened is I volunteered to keep their daughter 2 full days next week while they work because they don't have childcare. Their private montessori school is out and they can't find a camp to send her to. The other three days they are going to use backup care agency and have a nanny they don't know come to their house. I feel terrible whenever I see that happen because I know the nanny just sits there with their daughter in the house. And she's pretty bored. So yes I always offer during school vacations or days off to take their kiddo with mine. I've been doing this for years. I can't do everyday of the week because of other obligations but I do try my best.

The same problem will occur at the end of the summer when the week before school they were "waitlisted" for the camp they are in the rest of the summer because they didn't register early enough. They registered in January. I'm not sure I'm ready to take her on 5 full days, so I suggested half day camp for the week with my older kiddo and I'll keep her the rest of the day. I have to find a camp I can afford however.

Right now I've signed my kid up for one camp @ $90/week for half days, and I feel super guilty spending that much. I know they could take vacation but they are taking 2 weeks in July when their parents come to visit and have used another week during spring break and more during Christmas. So they do take vacation to care for their daughter, but this is a lot.

But what stunned me? The price of her camp. Okay her montessori school is ridiculous enough at $35k/year. But the camp? Well try $1200/week. Yes a week! Seriously what they are shelling out in camp is about what my family lives on with our extremely expensive mortgage a month!

To be fair they make double what we make. But even doubling our spending to $10k/month when half of it goes to camp? They shop entirely at whole foods and probably never price compare. I know they dress themselves and their daughter in great name brands and they get boxes daily delivered from online shopping. They never shop in real stores. So even while I assume they are saving a lot, they also spend a lot. Their monthly overhead has got to be high.

But on this forum we always talk about spending and money. So I discussed with my DH if I went back to work and we had all this extra disposable income. Every penny would be disposable obviously since we can survive on his now minus childcare. Yes I may pay right now for childcare but that is a transient expense. So would our lifestyle change? I would hope not.

But the real question is would I be able to spend that freely if I made that much? If we were making $30k/month gross and were saving $5k, taxes $10k, and had $15k to spend would I? I think I would be saving every extra penny and would shorten our time toward financial independence.

I realized no I wouldn't. I can honestly say I can see the exhaustion on my neighbors faces. I can see how they can barely play with their daughter. Their actual comment "we are trying to cut back her tv watching." They never go out on the weekends except to eat. They'll send her to the playground with us but they don't join us. The fact that they are struggling to be able to cover watching her because they are already using all their vacation days. Every day they are on the hamster wheel. So perhaps my DH and I are giving up FI and early retirement, but we're also enjoying our life now. We'll get there eventually but it'll be slower.

What would happen if they were on 1 income? Or two part-time incomes? Right now they give their daughter the best of everything. She'll probably go to college of her choice paid, paid wedding, house DP, etc.

I wonder if perhaps it's the catch-22 of the "upper middle class" dual income lifestyle? The people making enough that they feel they should afford everything but can't. And somehow manage to spend an enormous amount on just "bare bones budget" because their choices force them into needing so much money? The cars, the big mortgage, the private schools, etc?

Recently I've definitely made peace with our lifestyle. In the sense before I wondered if I wasn't "achieving" enough. I am not contributing to society by working. I am not using my degree. I am not producing as a fully functioning adult "should" be. I feel inadequate compared to the many high power dual income couples I meet and know. Where I chat with the nannies rather than moms since I know them better.

But this year I've made peace with it. I've made peace with my decision to stay at home. That I do not need to work to validate myself. That even if I chose to work, money doesn't rule my life. So whatever I chose to do I know our lifestyle will be okay. If my DH loses a job we are not going to crash and burn and never retire.

Rather we could possibly "retire" now. Now I feel secure that I do not need $3M at a minimum to retire. I think $1.5M is adequate if not less. And I don't feel pressured that we have to work until retirement or else we'd be shunned for being lazy.

Money can bring great happiness. But rather being content with what you have is more important.

So I look across the wall and realize that if I went back to work we could be my neighbors. It's possible we'd be financially independent in 2 years. We could possibly save $200k/year or more. But it's also possibly we'd up our consumption just because we'd have to. We'd need more convenience because we have less time. I hope they enjoy their daughter as much as I do. I will say I do have envy sometimes at the thought they could be FI today possibly (not sure about their finances, I think they have a lot in the bank because they make a lot) while we still need to work another 5-10 years to get to where they are.

Have you ever contemplated your money or your life? Did you make a choice to scale back or retire early? Or take a different job or move to slow down? Why?

I use credit cards a lot, for everything. I don't do anything like chase rewards but I do try to maximize the rewards I can gain through the cards I have. I've contemplated getting an airlines rewards card or chasing bonuses, but right now it's difficult to find the time to pay bills or keep on top of our spending with two small kids. Plus I know we're moving so rather than opening cards I'm keeping our credit scores high since each inquiry is a hit.

Last year in 2013 we earned $954 in rewards and trading some in to discover closer to $1000 in credit card cash rewards. We spent approximately $25k on the credit cards giving me a return rate of 4%. Plus another $108 Costco rewards. That's extremely high. It'll be higher this year.

Because of my high return rate I've definitely maximized our spending over using a mileage credit card. Why? Most times it's only worth using miles on an airlines ticket if you can get 2 cents/mile. Why? Because miles aren't that valuable. Meaning a ticket costing 25k miles, costing less than $500, most rabid mile collector (go to flyertalk to learn) say it's not worth it.

Personally I always try to maximize our mileage as well typically getting close to 3-4 cents/mile. My most recent trip to Hawaii I spent 17.5k miles on a one way ticket costing $800 = 4.5 cent/mile. Like I said maximize miles. People use miles when they don't want to pay, but true mileage collectors (and I'm best friends with one) helps me calculate the true cost of using the miles.

But back to credit card rewards. How did we get so much? Well we only use 4 cards discover it with it's 5% rotating categories and 1% back on everything else. I use this for most things since I can redeem it for gift cards that are also discounted for further rewards! Like a $45 for $50 Panera gift card or $45 for $50 starbucks (hello teacher gifts). I also ALWAYS use shopdiscover, because it gives 10% back right now on groupon and living social. It also gives great rebates on other sites too for extra savings and you can still use coupon codes on other sites.

We have a Citibank Simplicity cash rewards. Probably never heard of it. We got it 10 years ago and it gives us 5% back on gas, 5% pharmacy stores like cvs/walgreens, and 1% back on everything else. I use this for gas and most everywhere I can't use my discover since it's a mastercard.

Finally my DH and I each have a Costco Amex. We love costco and my rebate check since we have an executive membership for $110 was $108. We are getting close to getting over that hump. We get 3% dining out, 2% travel, great for international travel since it covers the exchange fee, and 1% everything else.

So that's it in CC. I should consider maximizing our CC rewards, but right now I think we're doing relatively well. Except for people who open cards for rewards I don't know that many people get a better value using their CC.

I have considered switching to a mileage or hotel (starwood) CC. My biggest issue is that I would never spend more than $100 on a hotel room between priceline and deals, so it's hard to get a card and use it on a room that cost $300. But perhaps if people sell me on it.

Do you have a favorite card? What's your redemption rate? Do you get great rewards.

I will end with if you overspend on CC or can't pay in full don't use them.

So where I live Craigslist can be a hit or a miss. Sometimes you can find a great deal, and other times you are wondering what are people smoking in asking so much for USED crap.

This weekend I bought a tagalong bike trailer for $40. It the cheapest I found but when we looked at it, it was a 2008 model and heavy. But we did it to determine that my 4 year old was terrified of riding like that. Well good thing we didn't spend money on a new one. A new tagalong can be had for $96 on Amazon, and I still don't feel I got a great deal buying used honestly.

So I resold it that evening for $40 and considered myself lucky to get rid of it. And not have to try to storage it. We're pretty big bikers and used to bike all the time before kids. We have a trailer but with two kids it's tight.

So a friend suggested trying out her Weehoo. This thing prices out at $379 new on amazon. I looked at craigslist and found only 1 for sale in my area. I was annoyed because they were asking $300! No way, I wanted to pay that. Hello! Also the ad said "price firm". But I'm going to trial out my friends and if she likes it I'll try to find it used for $200 or I'll buy it new for $320 from REI with 20% off coupon.

I guess I like craigslist when I get a "deal" for used. But where I live I feel like people aren't aware that used items should be sold at a discount. Many people ask for new or almost new prices you can buy from places like "amazon, allbeebaby, etc".

But at the same time good deals can occasionally be had by people who are looking to dump stuff (myself included).

Do you like craigslist where you live? I hope my kiddo likes the weehoo and I can land one for $200.

Is to charge everything I want on a credit card and not worry or consider how I'm going to pay or afford it. Then at the end of the month not pay it off.

For the record I've never done this so I've always wanted to know what it feels like. My DH and I have always been responsible with money. We were raised that that way.

But I want to know what it feels like to be irresponsible. I want to know a little bit of the thrill of not worrying about how can I afford this.

And the second part would be I'd like to see a paycheck where DH and I saved nothing. Where we just had taxes taken out and the entire thing would be deposited. Sounds nuts?

Truth is even though we make a good income I think the biggest check we've seen deposited has been $3k a pay period. When I see online people posting monthly budgets for $7k or more I wonder what it would be like to spend that much. What would I do with that much money? I know if we didn't save could potentially have that much deposited. And when we get bonuses we do see a really large cheack. But would I really feel better able to spend?

Have you paid off a lot of debt? Was it hard? Or were you always responsible? Did you change your ways? How did you change from overspending on a CC to paying it off?

This happened yesterday in the shoe store and I found it interesting in the perspective of money and kids.

I have some very rich friends. Very rich, we are talking the 1% or probably closer to the 0.5% easily. Very nice people and pretty normal in many ways.

But at the same time there are some stark differences. Now I will admit we are closing in to the 1% in income, but certainly not in assets. I openly acknowledge we live a very "nice" lifestyle and definitely upper middle class. And a lot of our income goes to savings so I do try to stretch every dollar we make. Every dollar not spent, means less we need to save.

But anyway as you know I went to stride rite and landed great deals on shoes. I bought 9 pairs of sneakers for $60. That works out to $6.66 a sneakers for stride rite!!! Cheaper than even thrift stores at least where I live. But I never buy shoes used because it's not good for developing feet to have used wear patterns. Even hand me downs between kids I sell if I think they are too used.

So as I was there on Monday getting more shoes (I bought 4 pairs Saturday), then "5" on Sunday. Anyway I ran into a friend who is "VERY RICH" and there because I told her about the sale. She was very excited to be buying shoes because her daughter needed them but to get on a deal was great.

I pointed out the cheapest options (ie what I bought) but she said her daughter wouldn't wear them. She said daughter is very picky, and will never buy the same shoe two years in a row. Also she's very particular about color and style. So the newest models.

She asked me how I get my kids to wear what I want, ie the cheapest, ugliest shoes in the store. She runs into the problem with clothes. Her kid won't wear stripes, no leggings with buttons, nothing but pink and purple, no zippers, etc. And always buys "high" end boutique clothes so she doesn't match other kids.

My answer? I told her that I tell my kids I'm not made out of money. They can pick their clothes out of the choices I give her (both our girls are 4) but that's it. I have X amount of $$$ and she's got freedom to pick from the clothes I offer up at the store or home, but at the end of the day we have to buy what we can afford. If she doesn't wear it and it's a gift, it's consigned.

I told my friend Mrs R, "I say we can't afford it. We can afford this and you can get this. You can wear this because that's it." She said how does she get it?

I said the "choice" is there is none. I give my kids choices because we can afford enough for choices. But I realize that if we had less money there are less choices. And even if we make more money I don't think I'll change.

I just can't fathom paying $16 for Hanna Anderson shorts for a 4 year old. Sure great quality, but seriously how long are they going to wear them? One season? Buy 4 target shorts for $20 and call it a day. At this age they wear clothes hard and for a shorter amount of time. People are going to say but it last longer. Really? Long enough that your growing kid can wear it for years?

I freak at the idea of paying $50 let alone $140 for a pair of shoes. Mrs R buys her kid uggs every winter and this season they were $140. I got knock offs from $20 from Walmart. At the end of winter her kids foot didn't fit and mine were worn. I bought winter boots kamiks for $10 from the outlet and she got whatever color was leftover. Mrs R bought new ones the color her kid wanted for $50.

Another example my kid gets to pick a snowsuit for $30 from Costco. It works fine and I'll use it for a hand me down for kiddo number 2. Mrs R buys North Face Jacket and fleece for her kid. We're talking $100 fleece and $200 jacket. I've got a lot of friends who do this. Seriously? Target and Costco. I mean one season! The kids don't stay the same size for more than one winter. At least I'd like to meet a kid who does.

But heck I will admit to getting some nice outerwear for my second kid from friends Mrs R then has her older kid need shorts and she said her husband asked how much should they give their teenager. He suggested $20? She said that won't buy one shorts. It would if you shopped at Target. But A&F, AE, mall stores, etc all cost way more than that for one pair. Perhaps I'm in for it when my kids get older and want name brands, but I doubt it. Again I'll be on the "it's not in our budget wagon."

But Mrs R is shocked I'm so strict with my kids. That I would be so religious as to say we can't afford it and you don't have a choice. She knows we make a decent living and to be to frugal is a little odd. I don't think I'm being mean, I think I'm teaching them that we only have so much money and we are using it wisely. So they don't have name brands and even their swim suits and "carters" clothes come from costco. But I spend less than $50/month on clothes all year for my kids including shoes and seasonal wear because of deals and costco.

Growing up my mom gave me a annual clothing budget and said this is it, make it last. So I had to shop sales and see how to stretch my dollars. I had what I had and that was it.

I think I'm teaching them not how to be cheap, but how to maximize income. I get we can afford "more", but honestly do kids really need name brand? And I buy stride rite because I think good shoes are important. And my kids feet are ridiculously wide. But even then I try to wait for deals and buy when they are on sale. I keep the receipt in boxes until we use them just in case they grow and skip a size. But otherwise? Target, Costco, Walmart, Marshalls, Kohls are my places for clothes. And even then I'll wait until serious discounts.

What are you teaching your kids? At least where I live everyone is a little fashionista, even boys. I can't imagine knowing what I know about prices of clothes how so many parents can spend so much on kids clothes. It's more than I even spend on myself.