LivingAlmostLarge's Personal Finance Blog

It is omg $3.50 a day for a school lunch. Geez. That is $17.50/week! Eek. Talking with friends whose kids are starting kindergarden both thought it was cheap. But were tempted by the price because it's less than what they spend daily to pack lunch.

I freaked out that they think they spend $5/day to pack lunch for their kid. But then I pointed out what they are packing is that expensive because NO WAY IN HELL is a public school going to give kids what they are giving their kids. I'm going to guess to make the school lunch it would cost $1. They were horrified, but I'm pretty sure I could do it.

First off milk is not organic horizon boxes, probably regular milk. Second they aren't doing Annie's organic cheddar bunnies, probably no snack to save money. Third the fruit given is probably not organic be it apple, grapes, etc. Fourth, the meat in sandwiches or entrees is definitely NOT applewood farms organic deli meat or any sort of organic chicken/beef/pork. Fifth the bread is definitely not whole grain, no HFCS wheat versus plain white bread. Finally for sure they aren't giving their kid yogurt smoothies at $1.25 each everyday!

So of course lunches for kids are $5 a day when you spend $1.25 yogurt, $1 milk box, $1 cheddar bunnies. But seriously I pointed out you can't compare what you pack with what you are buying. To be paying $3.50 for what they give you is a lot! I think it can be done for $1, but no it is cheaper than what you pack.

But if you pack $5 100% organic lunches now, how can you reconcile paying $3.50 for non-organic lunches? I don't get people.

I pack lunch to save money and because what I pack I am certain is healthier and more fresh than what my kids would be served. I know I do it for less than $3.5 and with some organics like milk and fruit. People nowadays have no idea how to cook, no idea how to grocery shop, and probably never read labels.

Is school lunches cheap where you are? Do you buy or pack? FWIW my DH 95% of the time packs a lunch as do it. It's being frugal and being lazy to go out.

So I have a friend (S) who went out of town with her younger child and left behind her 15 year old daughter (E) at home because school starts on Monday with her husband. He's her stepfather, but works a lot so her MIL is coming on Sunday to do pick ups and drop offs.

I was asked by E to drop her and her friend M off at the movies for a double date with boys tonight on Sunday. Her mom left Wednesday morning (yesterday). Her mom said yes and M had been staying over from Wednesday to Friday. I said fine.

But here's what's bothering me. E is going on this double date with boys she doesn't know. M went to camp for two weeks and met I guess one of these guys and he's bringing a friend and so M is bringing E.

But I had to pressure her into giving me the boys names. She didn't know. She doesn't know their phone numbers or parents contact info. And when I asked my friend S, she was flippant and didn't care. She literally told me "when I'm gone, you're the parent." Well if I were the parent E wouldn't be going period! But S said yes, so what can I say?

Also last night I asked S did you call M's mother and ask her if it's okay? Did you call M mother and confirm she knew you were out of town and only your husband was home? She said no she hadn't had the time. Also S said she hadn't the time before she left to find out more from E about this "date". While she wasn't thrilled what to do.

Okay I get that she's in a public place movie theater/open air mall with upscale restaurants. I'm dropping at 3 pm but they still aren't sure about the movie. I'm supposed to pick up at 8 pm. I'm still pressuring her about the time and name of the movie and where they are eating.

I don't know what to do because my own instinct is "HELL the F NO!" I never met these kids, I don't know who they are, and what is going on. This is not like she's going out with boys/girls I've know since kindergarden and I know their parents.

Yes I am going to eat dinner at the place and stalk them. I don't think I can do otherwise. My DH said if it were out kids I'd be a flat out no. We'd have to meet the kids first.

As to why S left? She had to go deal with stuff regarding her mother's death so she didn't leave willy-nilly on vacation. And I get that she's not been herself, and probably why she seems distracted, scattered, flustered. But this is not something I thought I'd be jumping into. And honestly parenting someone else's kid isn't easy. If anything it's harder because you treat them with kid gloves.

So anyone who reads this with a teen, help me please.

So I loaned a friend a few dvds. My DH mentioned today that some of the DVDs were in poor condition and scratched up. He's the control freak and didn't say anything when I loaned them. And when I loaned them to her she said the kids wouldn't touch it and they'd be returned in great condition.

So now my DH wants me to talk to her. So obviously I will tell her. But what should I say? I guess that's the end of lending her anything.

I don't know if my DH are on the same page for "early" retirement. We certainly are more in line with spending, budgets, lifestyle. Although we aren't 100% in lock step but what couple is? I'd say he's naturally very frugal (bordering on cheap) but I'm not a naturally spend person period.

Example I got my Dyson he still thinks it's nuts to buy a vacuum cleaner for $300 versus he thought my budget would be $150. Now does the vacuum make my life easier? yes! My house does feel cleaner. So I say it's worth it.

Anyway my DH recently had me borrow book on tape "four hour work week." I was surprised. When I've brought up living frugally, moving somewhere cheaper, buying a house cash he's freaked out. The idea of retiring with sooner because we live simpler I think he's coming around. My DH was mustachian before it became a "word".

But reading Mr Money Mustache retired with $800k in 2006 with one kid, meant the reality set in. I think he's thinking about it, wondering if we could do it. Expenses without our mortgage is very much "mustachian". So where do we need to be in five years? What if we could move buy a home cash with our equity and then live on what we've saved? We'd right now be close to Mr MM. But a few extra years with our extra kid or two?

I hope this is a turning point where my DH starts to believe we can do this. That don't need to work forever. It also helps I recently made a friend whose a single mother, who retired from private equity and supports herself royally. And she herself has said by living "simply" ie $100k/year she can still manage by watching her spending. She eats out, pays for preschool, etc. Life is about choices.

I hate verizon. We have verizon FIOS for internet and cable. I have cable because it costs us $5 more to have cable than not.

But my cable remote broke and I called verizon and was told it would cost me $15 or $20 depending on the model to replace it. I said "are you effing kidding me?" The guy said nope, company policy. I said "I am paying for cable and you don't want me to have a working remote? Seriously? The remote for cable isn't included?" Guy says "company policy. I'll put it in customer service, but apparently everyone complains about this asinine charge!"

So perhaps now I can convince my DH to let me switch. I haven't been allowed to switch cable or internet companies because he prefers FIOS internet. I am not on a contract because he won't sign one. He doesn't like me switching every year for a "deal" because he doesn't like them drilling holes in our walls to put the cable wires through. So we've had FIOS at a ridiculous price because I can't switch.

I pay for internet $79.99/month and bundled with cable $84.99. Yes I can't get them cheaper because I won't sign a contract. Hopefully this issue with the remote, I'll just cancel and start up. No contract, no problem. Return box and router and off we go. Now if I can convince my DH to live without internet for like a week or two even better.

Perhaps then I can get Verizon to give me a deal so I don't have to drill more holes. I still despise them. But I have yet to meet someone who likes their cable company. I laugh when I watch the video of the granny going postal in comcast and smashing everything with a wrench. That's exactly how I feel.

So everyone does stupid things but you just have to accept it right? I did a very stupid thing and I have to suck it up. Ugh.

So this weekend my cell phone got stolen. We share a verizon family plan so I'm locked into a contract for another 18 months. So I'm using my DH's old Samsung Galaxy Nexus. I don't care, actually I honestly didn't want to upgrade in the first place. But my DH feels guilty so I just get whatever phone he wants in duplicate.

How'd it get stolen? I wasn't paying enough attention while we were eating in a very busy food court and left it on the table and when I looked for it, it was gone. Sigh. Totally my fault and responsibility.

Before anyone asks why a contract I actually priced out ting and was told by their generator we were in that 5% of people who it didn't make sense to get Ting. I downloaded all my bills. Same with the other carriers. Apparently having a family plan and using it a lot (we don't do a home phone and my BIL doesn't either), and we text and use a lot of minutes. But for now I'm okay. But I do feel frustrated at my own stupidity. And this is probably why I hate having a new phone. I know I can be irresponsible. And why my DH always buys me technology that sometimes I feel bad having. Ugh.

Now I have to figure out besides using the old phone what I can do to make up for it.

So I am pretty exhausted as I write this. This is probably yet another straw about why tying your yoke to others is exhausting.

I wasn't blogging when this happened but in January of this year we had a pipe burst in our neighbors and flood their unit and the unit below. They were on vacation and had left the heat on but the pilot light went out apparently on the gas insert fireplace. They had left on the central furnace but it wasn't enough.

My DH was the only person home and not only turned off the water, but he shop-vac the water, drained, cleaned, called and paid the plumber and fan drying guys. He truly works just as hard as I do on our place (in case I sound like I'm complaining, we both break out backs).

Anyway because of this water damage loss our master condo policy was not renewed and is ending August 10th. I've been in contact with our current agent and calling multiple agents regarding getting new insurance. Based on condo docs we need to get something in place and it can't be crap. And I've been looking into our state insurance if all else fails.

Besides that I've been calling the people who installed our fence to come out and repair the gate that broke off. And I've dealt with the tree removal people and gas lines. I'm just tired. My DH does the bill pay and manages the books. I manage everything associated with the maintenance.

But it's exhausting. I got an email 3 months the gate broke off. No suggesting they take care of it. Rather "deal" with it tone.

I am just done. Whoever said condo living is easier hasn't live like this.

So I bought a Britax Frontier 90 from Kohl's. They are having a sale where if you use their CC you get 30% off with BEACH30, plus it can stack with the BRITAX30 coupon so the carseat I bought which is running $269 on amazon I got for $223. $329 original - $30 Britax coupon code - 30% off = $210 + tax = $223. Plus I earned $40 Kohl's cash and going through shop discover an extra 5% cash back.

I've been waiting for a triple dip deal like this. And the carseat is a necessity, not a want. My DK1 has outgrown her convertible seats and this is the harnassed booster.

Anyway I'm toying with convincing my DH to allow me to buy the Dyson vacuum. We also need to buy him a new rechargable toothbrush.

But I can get the dyson I have been eyeing for $320 out of pocket and I can possibly get 5% shopdiscover. It's on sale for $499 @ kohl's - $15 off - 30% BEACH30 - $40 Kohl's cash and we're looking at $320!

I made also posted I was up to $275 from surveys and sales I think I can perhaps come up with a "credit" to take advantage of this deal.

I have a lot to be thankful for and I'll try to post pictures but gotta find the camera. We went camping for the first time with the kids and it was great. A bit hardcore for me and honestly I think my DH overstretched a bit but we survived and I'm proud/surprised.

We had to semi-backpack in stuff, used a wagon, and didn't take a stroller. Carrying an almost 2 year old who fell asleep while we walked to the campsite was not fun. As my DH dragged/carried everything and I semi chased our 4 year old. We did have running water but we had to carry out trash and brought everything. But getting away was lovely and the scenery was awesome. Same thing happened the second day since we didn't have the stroller, the toddler fell asleep and I ended up hiking carrying her. I ended up stopping and sitting with 25 lb dead weight. Lesson learned. Although we did get mad props from other campers for going with two very young children. Note to self, camping with kids is a lot harder than when you are younger!

But it was a lovely weekend. Kids had fun. Now my DH wants to do a kayaking trip with the kids. Park one car 30 miles down river and kayak/camp. I'm not sure what to do. Advice peeps please. We love kayaking and do it a lot with the kids, but I am hesitating because I wonder if again something we didn't think about with a 2 year old will make the trip bad.

FWIW, my DH doesn't think we're at all outdoorsy type people. He grew up backpacking and camping a lot more than we're doing to the kids. He used to be part of an annual winter all guy camping trip, where they dig out an igloo and sleep in -40C or something stupid. I don't know why they did/do it. And he biked across eastern canada in his college days with a friend. Or backpacking for a week. So him pushing us is not surprising, me going along with it is.

I grew up camping only at the beach. My idea of camping is a pickup truck with bedding, lots of food, bonfire, and friends. I had camped once before I met my DH if you call getting drunk in the desert "camping". And I will admit to being terrified of bears and wild animals.

So suggestions for camping or easy trips might help me as well. I have to dig up pictures.

My mom laughed at me. Yep that's right I said to my mom we plan on "retiring" at 55 or at least being financially independent. She laughed and said no way is that possible. She said that people can't accomplish that anymore. Even with pensions mostly for government or public workers they have handcuffed many to retiring at 62 or 65. How did I expect to retire at 55?

My response? By saving money. She said what about medical? What about college? What about having enough? You can't save enough to retire, you have to wait until medicare and social security.

And yet my mom retired at 55. But she herself will tell you it's because she worked for the state during the golden ages. She retired with 70% of her salary, free medical for her and my dad for life, reimbursement of their medicare premiums (she's not old enough yet), pension is COLA, and two paid for homes. She also had $70k in a Roth IRA and $220k in a 457b. She didn't really save until in her 40s/50s and even then she invested in a money market in her 457.

She mostly knows other state workers and most can't retire until SS kicks in because they can't live on what they make. They weren't in the old generous plan of 2%/per years of service, while she contributed only 7.5% during her working years. She out spent her pension contributions within 5 years (I calculated for her that she'd use up her "contributions" within 5 years) and is now living off the state the rest of her life. They offered her a cash out of her contributions like $200k and a lower monthly payment. She took the maximum monthly payment instead.

That should be another 30 years (i'm not kidding my grandma is still alive and well at 86 and my great grandmother was 101 and her dads side we'll lets just say her aunts are in their 90s). My grandfather only passed at 77 because he was a 1-2 pack a day smoker who died of COPD. Otherwise both sides average age is 90+. As for me? Should be the same with genetics.

So to my mom she's confounded how anyone can retire without a pension. Her sisters who don't have pensions have always talked about retiring when they die. Everyone she's worked with has only retired at 62 or later with the pension and medical. EVERYONE always talks about how lucky she was to be on the "old" program and retire at 55.

So she truthfully said "how do people retire without a pension?" It was dumbfounding that people could actually save money themselves. That being completely self-reliant and having the expectation you'd do it without a pension seemed insane.

But more than money, my mom asked me what we would do? That my dad is still working at 83. That she would still be working if not for an eye problem (macular hole). And still desires to go back to work. Actually my parents have enough money to have retired years ago but believe it virtuous to work. That without work life would be pointless.

I don't know how to answer that. I don't know how I come from such hard working stock and don't desire to work as long as possible. Or to not worry about long term care? I don't have an answer.

Do you think you'll retire before 65? When? What are you planning on doing?

We visited with some friends this weekend at their new house! Huge, perfect, lovely. They got the lifestyle they wanted! It's 2400 sq ft house with 4/2.5 ba, attached 2 car garage, and unfinished basement, all for the rock bottom price of $650K! Amazing deal. So what's the catch?

Well they commute a solid hour without traffic and if they had to work rush hours it'd be closer to 1.5-2 hours. They live about 45 minutes from me without traffic. So it's not an easy commute and they admit that. But it's the lifestyle they wanted and they got the house they wanted at a price they could afford. We talked about it, they work close to where my DH works. And the truth is with 2 kids and a stepchild they make huge commuting sacrifices and even seeing her stepson less (he lives in the city with his mom and prefers to stay weekends to hang out with friends). But they now have a bedroom for each kid and space they didn't have before.

So my DH and I were in lust. Yeah as we looked at the brand new construction we sighed. Very cute. We agreed the sq ft and use of space was perfect. I'd change only a couple things, full bath on first floor instead of half bath, and open floor plan instead of dining room and nix the office. But size wise the house felt super large and there was tons of closet space and storage. Honestly it was more than adequate for us we both agreed.

So now I know that 2400 sq ft is more than we'd need, I suspected around 2000 depending on layout but most people I know with new construction have 4000+ sq ft, and yes it's over $1.7M. So I couldn't accurately gauge what a smaller new house would feel like.

I'm so happy my friend got the house of her dreams and the life she wants. She got everything she wanted and it is worth celebrating. I hope I get to that point as well where everything falls into place. They even managed to sell their other two homes without losing their shirts! CHEERING!!! They had been carrying one of them and shelling out $500/month because the rent didn't cover the mortgage and they were about $75k underwater. They did it! Consolidated and got something perfect they wanted. The success for them is great.

But life is about choices. And my friend said they consciously decided to live far from friends and work because they liked the quirky nature of the town they bought in, the house and lot was rural and private, and the lifestyle on the weekends of being in nature. No they are not retiring early or anytime even close to soon and this commute will be happening I would guess another 15 years. But if they decide it's too hard they can always change their minds. BUT they seems super happy with the house so I doubt it! I applaud their brave decision to go do something different.

I kind think that's the best case. If you want to change your life you do it. Life's about choices. And when it's not working you change it. And if it's still working you change it again. The only pitfall? You have to live with the choices you make.

Another reader pulled out the negative comments on the MMM post and many did say get on the same page. But at the same time more than few also said happiness needs to be felt by everyone.

So I decided to address a few things. I know that I will be happier living by family and friends. I know that I will be happier not sitting on a plane 12+ hours. I am not unhappy with the kids but I know I can be happier.

Second, the 3rd kid we are still wrestling with it. I showed him the post and he had to admit we can afford the third child and he needs to stop using finances as a defense. He isn't sure anymore. He was sure last year and I wasn't ready. He doesn't want another now, we've hit the sweet spot, and I am ready. It will be a conversation we keep having. We haven't done anything drastic so I figure we're in limbo. I don't know when we'll know if we are done, but that's something I can concede without feeling unhappy. IF he's really done then we're done. I've always said "a no outweighs the yes". But at the same time we haven't done the permanent change to prevent kids. So I think we're on the fence. Perhaps I'm wrong, but he's always agreed we'd do the snip when we were done. And we haven't done it or planned on it. I would really like a 3rd child but if he doesn't have it in him, it's okay. And perhaps he may change his mind in another 12 months but I'll be the no again. We had always been ambivalent on the number of kids we'd have. We said we'll see how it goes and when it felt right we'd stop.

Third, when I did the case study we had talked about moving but hadn't examined what it would take to move without jobs. That case study was a wake up call about whether we even could retire early. That was never in our "agenda" we just assumed we'd work until at least 55. Now the reality is it's possible and we both think so.

And if we had an update on the case study? The most interesting aspect I think is that my DH didn't get his promotion in March. He is pretty unhappy with his job and wonders if it's meant to be. He doesn't know if he'll get a promotion in March 2015, and feels he deserves one. If we weren't in the process of moving, but decided we'd stay he'd right now be looking to jump ship to another company.

He likes what he does. However he feels it took him 5 years for his first promotion and that was a very long time. It's now been 4 years and due to the length of the first promotion, he's definitely on the "high" end of where he should be. On the pay scale of his pay grade two more years and he'd be "maxed" out on his scale which makes him unhappy. This we calculated about 2 weeks ago.

I haven't influenced these comments, yes I'm not thrilled, but I certainly didn't say his job was bad. He's disappointed with his career trajectory and wonders if he needs to switch. And that more than many other things has given him a huge push to agree we should move.

So the question rose why stay where we live if he isn't happy in his job? What is holding us here? Nothing. Would he be happy if he had a promotion? Yes. But it didn't happen. If it doesn't happen next year, I think that's his reasoning behind moving next June 2015. I believe he'll be so disappointed that it'll be hard to endure working at his job.

Also in the past 4 years he's had reorganization 4 times and this time he doesn't like his direct supervisor. He doesn't feel they have the same vision. He certainly didn't feel that way in 2012 with a different boss. He was happier. Now he's not. They had another reorg, and he wasn't reassigned and not thrilled with the fact he expected to be.

So like everything in life, things change like the wind. He loves what he does. But he's not exactly thrilled with the situation he's in now. He used to love it more, and perhaps he could again. But if we were in a different circumstance he wouldn't be staying with his company.

So all signs point to exiting where we live. Right now I am about to contact another realtor because we had a realtor contact us about selling our place. They want us to come up with a number and I don't want to "lowball or be unrealistic" about what I could get. This would be hard selling and renting, but at the same time we'd be locking in equity and gaining flexibility.

And I think we need to stockpile cash like MM said. I don't know how long until we find jobs if we are unemployed when we move. That makes me nervous.

So I just checked today and our retirement savings accounts passed $500k, yeah goal!

Retirement - $505,286.
Taxable Investment - $160,881
DD1 College - $12,118
DD2 College - $6,758
Cash - $64,540
Checking - $5k, one month float

I've been contemplating that we keep increasing our cash position and I think our "emergency fund" is becoming a little excessive. But at the same time we are planning on moving in 2 years and we don't know what cash we'll need. Plus if a job came up we've been worried we'll be forced to sell and bring cash to table or something. If we did get a job and had to relocate the cash would be useful in relocating. Perhaps my DH and I should discuss investing half? Thoughts?

Second I sold my baby walker for $20. So far my money towards Dyson is $120. I am doing swagbucks, but I won't use my CC rewards for buying the vacuum. I feel those are more cash back. Hoping to sell a bouncer, boppy pillows, diaper bag, and cloth diapers. I still am keeping a lot of stuff but trying to streamline it down.

And tonight dinner? Homemade smoked pulled pork, coleslaw, potato salad, and corn all home made. Yum.

I've talked about LBYM not being easy and it's not. And I've said that we've put certain things on hold because it makes financial sense. What I haven't discussed is the why.

So in 23 months we'll be shaking the dust from our boots of where we live and moving without jobs. If we had a job offer we'd move sooner. It would decrease the uncertainty and make moving palatable.

But why? To buy a house? To gain a king size bed? Nope.

The real underlying reason that Another Reader (yes I'm calling you out) is to be closer to our friends and family. Another Reader are you 3k and 6k miles away from family and friends? Are you not withing driving distance of any family? Have you ever had a child and knocked on a neighbors door at 1 am to watch older child and made it to the hospital with 20 minutes to spare? Have you ever take a cab to the hospital with a sick child so one parent can stay at home with the other in the middle of the night? Have you ever panicked and realized that if anything happened to you, the soonest a family member could get to you is 12 hours maybe?

We live at least 1 connection flight away from either sets of parents. My step-siblings are flights 4 hour flights away, my BIL is 5-6 hours cross country flights away. Grandparents at least 24 hours. That's dropping everything and hopping on the next flight.

I am not selfish, I am talking about the reality of being alone. Of being a SAHM and sick and calling my DH to come home because I'm vomiting and unable to walk my dog and am too dizzy to walk. I worry about my two kids and because I'm sick I can't ASK another mom friend to put herself and her kids at risk of being sick. And YES they've said no they don't want to catch what I or my kids have had.

I've experienced living with family, my BIL lived with us for 4 months during a period of job hunting. It was great to have help and family around. I've got family and friends up and down the West Coast and so does my DH. We'd be a flight away from his parents and mine. Actually my in-laws just visited before the 4th and they said it would be easier if we lived on a direct flight from where they lived, said wistfully not accusing or demanding. Say what you will but I would love to be closer to them and that is the driving desire to move.

The house, bed, etc is all material things that will occur when we move forward with our lives. If we choose to stay put we would buy those things and get a more permanent home. But we've decided that's not the plan. And it's possible we're moving to the SF Bay area even more expensive than where we are, and will be stuck with a townhouse or a more expensive mortgage.

But at the same time we'll have help from our families with our kids. We would have less worries about something happening to us. Our children would know their grandparents intimately and extended family; and if the price is living in an even more expensive COLA so be it. We'll make it work and make sacrifices. I'm NOT willing to make those same sacrifices to live where I LIVE now. There aren't the same benefits to living in a HCOLA for a job. For family? Yes. Just for a job?

I've had a case study on MMM. The advice was MOVE. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/02/23/reader-case-study-going-west-for-early-retirement/

Ideally we'd like to live in Seattle or Portland. My DH's top two choices. I'd prefer San Diego or SF, but finances play a role and that bumps those lower. He missed the seasons when we lived in San Diego. I don't care for seasons but I like the cost of living in Seattle and Portland.

This move might be tough for us financially but I truly believe it'll pay dividends in the long term. My DH agreed to it without a JOB, because he knows companies are fickle. He was laid off from his job where we are 3 months after we moved from San Diego to the East Coast. So companies suck and have no loyalty.

But we decided jointly in April 2014 that we were really going to buckle down and start to save to move. We were going to try and cut expenses more and take the risk. My DH was willing to go June 2015, but I decided that we could afford to sacrifice and endure our situation for 2 years to buffer our financial position.

The few things I want and am saving for, I'm starting to think as little rewards as I wait to settle down permanently. As I wait for the opportunity for us to put down roots and really settle.

But we're ready for life's curveballs. We decided if DH ever lost his job again we'd sell our house and be off in a bloody minute.

So the plan? List house in Spring 2016. Sell it no matter what. Move with job to west coast or move without and hope for the best. Job prospect 1 is post-doc for me. Prospect 2 i am hoping to become an enrolled agent and do taxes as a career change. Prospect 3 for DH take an entry level business position. Prospect 4 take any job.

Fearful? Yes. Trying to accomplish goal? Definitely. Perhaps it is selfish to move. But at the same time nearly 10 years ago we agreed we'd live out west by our families. We decided this move was temporary or we'd have ended our relationship. It was a very deliberate decision and one that we did not take lightly.

And Snafu point about leaving a job you like. What job do you love forever? I have only pointed out the truth to DH. We are stay put for him to like his job for "now"? He's already this year dissatisfied without a promotion. He feels he's been put over. His reason for moving next year? If he doesn't get a promotion he'll be very unhappy. If he's unhappy then he should look for a job where we live? Or should we just move and take the risk? My opinion? Leave. We aren't staying for anything other than him liking his job. And what happens if he doesn't like his next job? We stayed for what?

I don't mind living below my means, but it's not easy. This is to reiterate to those who are getting out of debt and think afterwards it will be. It's not. I like my life, I don't like where I live.

So I am unhappy. I am unhappy but trying to change the situation. First, when we moved into our townhouse my DH made a deal with me that if we suffered with our old furniture when we moved (back to the west coast) and bought a SFH, we'd buy all the furniture we wanted. He said it doesn't make sense to buy stuff that may not fit or won't be worth shipping in 6 years. Well it's been 9 years and it's hard to still see our same stuff. And yes I've been setting aside money for new stuff. I have $15k saved so far. Delayed gratification for sure. So what do I want?

1. King Size Bed (won't fit up 3rd story staircase, thank you 1880s victorian and no window big enough to shove it through). Our neighbors had to put their king bed on the second floor and suck up a queen to make the hairpoint closed turn on our staircases to the master which was a converted attic.

2. Dining Table - I'll be honest I don't think we could fit a bigger one in our house, so I shouldn't complain.

3. Couch - At least the kids will be older and it won't get as dirty and we may not have dogs at that point.

4. Dressers for us and the kids - ikea used stuff or hand me downs. Kids are also in plastic bins since their closets don't fit real hangers. The closets are too shallow. Maybe even bedroom sets

5. Headboard - for us at least.

6. TV - move our single HDMI tv to our bedroom and get a new family tv. We bought ours when we moved in 2005 and are waiting until we move again.

7. New Grill - DH replaced parts on ours but is also waiting to dump our when we move (he's practicing delayed gratification too). I'm going to get him a grill and tandoori oven he's dreamed about when we move. And install a gas line to his grill ($1k well worth it).

These are a few of the things I've on my list of items to get when we know how big our next house will be. It could all be moot depending on where we live.

So what else am I waiting for? Well to buy a SFH. To see the size and layout. Stuff I want?

1. 3 bd/2ba - I want a master bath or space to install one if it's only 3/1.5ba. Older capes make it impossible.
2. garage attached if possible, detached is okay.
3. patio/deck where we can sit and have a grill. Current deck adequate to have grill and smoker but not much space else. I think it's 5x5.
4. yard - potential to be fenced, more than 5000 sq ft, preferably above 10000 sq ft and no more than 1 acre.
5. basement - potential to be playspace for kids, or family room for kids.
6. Under $1M.

That's it. Move in ready would be awesome but some work is fine. I'd like to be able to make it energy efficient, but as long as it's 1960s and newer i'll be satisfied. I know the wiring will work, there will be insulation, and we won't have to deal old homes. I HATE charm now. I don't even care what style is it, just as long as it's 2000 sq ft and in good shape.

So things on my list I want now but am "earning" with extra money, and have considered buying. FWIW, my DH never says no. Actually he tells me all the time if I want something buy it. I usually don't shop and spend so if I want something I probably have looked at deals and considered it a long time.

1. Dyson DC59 $549, used to be on my when we move list, but I'm tired of vacuuming and sweeping so much and not being satisfied with our really old vacuum.
2. Wustof knives - debating buying set or each piece at a time, opinions? I have a great set of calphalon cookware that I use DAILY. Best investment ever. I want the same out of my knives. Any other brands to check out?
3. Le Crueset Dutch Oven - borrowed my neighbors a few times this year. Considering Staub as well.
4. Slow cooker - got mine in 2000 for $10 black friday. I have a really small one and need a bigger one. Is the all clad worth it?
5. Cookie sheets - can't decide between sheets and mat.

So I have a couple of things I can get now and earn. But the majority of stuff it just makes sense to wait. But it is hard to feel like life is "on hold." And you are waiting for it to happen and start.

Yes living below your means often means you have nothing material to show for it. Often times it means passing on a fancy car, cool vacation, eating out, fancy groceries, branded clothes, or even furniture. It is hard and in some ways I think it gets harder as you get older.

When I was in my 20s with DH none of our friends had money or things. They weren't buying houses, they weren't driving luxury cars yet, they were getting of school, getting careers started, paying back loans, etc. Most people were young and broke and starting out. But then the 30s/40s hit and people began starting families and making a real salary instead of entry level earnings.

I recently turned 35 and started blogging again and began reading posts about getting out of debt and turning over a new leaf and LBYM. There are many posts about the monotony and struggle of savings.

I'm about to admit it's HARD. Right now and probably for the past 4 years we've been on cruise control. We've been cruising along saving at the same rate and pace actually putting more aside in our taxable savings, but accruing some debt (car loans I want gone this year). But this year a couple of things happened. I realized that we are potentially early retirees or financially independent couple. But at the same time I realized we also haven't upsized our lifestyle at all in a LONG time.

We bought our townhouse with plans for having kids and we had them. We have the same furniture pretty much we bought in our 1 bd condo, $100 dinner table, $20 coffee table, $50 desk from IKEA, $40 dressers from IKEA. We haven't bought any really adult furniture, except our foam mattress from costco 5 years ago. We did upgrade our cars to 4 family sedans instead of compact cars we had, but base model and used for the other. So in little ways our life has improved but nothing noticeably drastic.

So I'm going to buck the "mustachian" trend and ADMIT that I do find it hard. I find it hard to stay the course and LBYM. I find it hard to not compare and wonder what it would be like to buy a couch that cost 4 figures or a dinner table that seats more than 4 people. Or lusting after a mininvan but hesitating because even used it's a lot.

So no it doesn't get easier after getting out of debt. According to Mr Money Mustache saving 15% of your income only gets you to retirement in 43 years, saving 50% = 17 years. I can agree because I recently calculated our savings rate at around 50% of "net" = 17 years and that's about dead on for when I project we'll hit "Financial Independence" at age 45, perhaps sooner.

It's hard to save monthly without seeing any returns. To look online at other people's posted budgets even and realize that people "take home" more than we do but also feel like they have nothing to show for it. I feel like we live a very frugal middle class lifestyle because our money is siphoned away into savings before I even see it. Yet I also know mentally truly "middle" class aren't able to save anything.

So no it doesn't get easier. To quote Dave Ramsey "you should be debt free in 7 years is Bull SHIT!" Saving 15% puts you on the path to retire in 40 years. You still have other expenses to save for. You are living like no one else because you are living with a safety net. But to be truly financially free takes a lot more time and sacrifice.

What keeps me moving forward even when it sucks? That I'd rather be where I am today in less debt than I was yesterday. Everyday and choice moves me closer to the goal and though it feels like I'm treading water, I'm still ahead than digging myself into more debt.

So have a little faith fellow LBYM. It's not easy and we often lack material goods or experiences. But would you rather be here or where you were 3 months ago?

Ugh cars. Yet another car accident with my DH. Again it wasn't his fault but this is getting annoying and tiring. I should probably at this rate be getting car rental protection on our car insurance. I've never done it since we have 2 cars, but he was hit again while parked. Took our DK1 to swim lessons came out and the entire back passenger side was scraped up.

So it's a hit on our car insurance but it's not a moving violation. It'll cost us $500 deductible but it won't affect our rates hopefully.

This is his second accident in 2 months. Last month he was reversed into while waiting for a parking spot. I can't stand this. If it matters this is the third of the year and it's only 6 months in! The horror!

I just keep telling myself it's just a car and everyone's fine. But I'm always the one getting the insurance done, getting the car fixed, following up with everyone, etc. It's just always more work on my plate hence the stress. Maybe we'll get ride of the car one day.

Over the weekend I went through hell trying to find a deal to rent a mininvan. On Tuesday we went on a overnight with my in-laws who are visiting to a resort area. Got a great deal on a midweek, just before season hotel. The small problem was that we either had to drive two cars or rent a minivan large enough to hold 6.

Well the best prices I found were $91/day through normal rentals both hotwire or carrentals.com. I did see zipcar for $88/day but turned into $98/day including taxes and gas a day. I shuddered at the prices. But then I decided to google car rentals from car companies and up popped toyota, ford, and lincoln mercury.

I called around Monday and was told I could do it since it was mid week for $65/day = $70/day including taxes. Score. Mind you this was farther out and in the city it was $95/day. But still for $140 for 2 days I feel we got a steal. Car dealerships never come up on searches by the way.

So did I save money? Probably broke even. We spent $65 for the minivan so $50 savings on gas. We paid for parking at the beaches $15 x 2 = $30 (only 1 car versus 2), parking $10 in lots = $90 at least not quite $140, but we did save on wear and tear on two cars so we probably broke even.

Even so next time if I can't score lower than rental companies I'll be sure to check car dealerships. And the bigger savings, not buying a minivan just for the times we need to seat 6. Of course a third kid would push us over the edge.

So I am getting the hang of this blog site, while debating going back to my own. I still own my domain and it's up for renewal. I'll work on it next week.

Yeah this is all homemade and this is why eating out is great but so is eating at home.

Stir fried sticky rice


wrapped sticky rice


Romaine with feta, bell peppers, pecans, cranberries, strawberries, and greek dressing.


Rice, fish, bok choy - what my kids eat


I freeze the wrapped sticky rice for DH's lunches and I froze some of the stir fried rice as well.

Next up wasabi mayo salmon, japanese sushi rice, and perhaps an indian curry dish. We'll see about next week.

So Nika got me curious and I am trying to figure out our savings rate and time to FI. According to our w2 DH's employer pays $20,348.82 last year for our medical premiums We paid $2526 or 11% of the premiums. I had no idea our benefits were so expensive.

Some food photos. I need to get better at this.

Ribs and Strawberries we picked.

Angel food cake with our picked strawberries

Romaine with feta, strawberries, pecans, bell peppers, and greek dressing.

I can't tell our friends in real life because it's too painful to hard we are struggling with trying to relocate and fail. It makes me feel ridiculous because they think I'm talking about a dream that will never happen. And even more stupid when my DH's been on interviews about 1x/year and nothings come of it. I think my friends think moving is a pipe dream for us. Something we talk about but never actually do.

So as you know we are doing it in 24 months. In June 2016 we are moving no matter what. But right now we are still looking at jobs. My DH had a phone interview 2x in the past week and a coffee interview this sunday. One position with a university and the other with a company. Neither are exactly what he wants. Academia has its own issues including pay and tenure or lack there of. Industry well the position pays extremely well more than double what he makes now but is a lot of traveling.

But like I said that's putting cart before horse. Get offer then see what our options are. See if they would even in person interview and make an actual offer. But it's hard not to dream or desire to move.

For me I'm also not telling friends I'm looking into doing something different for work. I'm sure I'll get a lot of "you should just go back to what you did" and keep it simple. But I don't want to. So I'm going to look further into being an enrolled agent.

Dinner was yummy. Fresh strawberries we picked today @ $3.50/lb. Fun time with kiddos. Smoked pork ribs with romaine salad with feta, croutons, strawberries, pecans, and corn. Also made angel food cake to go with strawberries.

So I want a new vacuum cleaner. I do not need one, but my standup vacuum cleaner is 12 years old and probably should be replaced because it smells when it vacuums. I have a Eureka Boss Smart Vac. However I don't use it as much as my lightweight 9 year old dirt devil corded handheld. It's basically a dustbuster with a handle. I bought it in 2005 on a black friday doorbuster from walmart for $8. It's semi broken with the suction piece unable to stay in unless it's being used. However it's still usable, hence why I use it.

Anyway I probably sweep or vacuum everyday 2-3x/day. There is so much dirt/sand in the winter from the dog, and sand/dust from the kids in the summer I can't stand it. I obsess about it and can feel it even in the winter through socks.

So last black friday I told my DH I wanted a light handheld. He said sure go get what you want, but I couldn't bring myself to spend $200-300 on a dyson. But yesterday after dinner at a friend's house I used her Dyson DC59 animal which is $399 on Amazon. I would love that but it's just too much for me to spend. I looked and the lower/older model is $219 reconditioned factory or $259 new.

I am definitely lusting after this vacuum cleaner. The problem is how to afford it? What can I sacrifice or how can I make extra money? Now it'd be easy to use the focus group money I'll be making shortly, $100 on Monday and $125 next month. But I think that's too easy. Maybe I should have a goal that if I can sell stuff on craigslist or a consignment store, I can buy the new vacuum. That would be a lesson in getting rid of stuff to get something new as well as delayed gratification.

How do you deal with wants versus needs?

Drive car until wheels fall off. But sell if it doesn't fit your needs, not wants, NEEDS!

Strangely enough my mom and MIL have both driven cars for about 20 years. My mom is still driving her 96 Toyota Avalon with about 90k miles. And my MIL last car was a 86 Diesel Jetta she sold in 2006 with 200km because she has trouble seeing and she rarely drives period.

As it is in 2012 I got rid of my 1st car a 98 Corolla bought in 99. I felt pain in my heart as I let of the old me. The college me. The young, fun, cute, and carefree me. I drive a 2010 subaru outback for my two kids. Not having a car payment did a huge boost to our budgets. My DH and I both hadn't had car payments since 2003 until 2010.

DH got the Outback in 2010 when his 2000 Ford Focus basically burst into flames. Yeah that American car experience was not a good one. And with one kid I drove my corolla until we had our 2nd kiddo.

Then my DH wanted a bigger, safer car. I would have preferred him driving my corolla but he wanted something bigger. So we compromised and bought a used 2006 hyundai sonata with low mileage. It had side airbags, latch, and abs. I mean it did hurt my frugal heart but alas marriage is about compromise.

Now we have two car payments due to be paid off 8/2015. $385 and $200 a month. Ugh. And we spent $10k and $20k on our cars. I can guess how much monthly people are paying driving around in $50k+ cars. It truly is a money pit.

But if everything goes to plan...In another year or two we'll buy a minivan and replace the Sonata without a car payment. We started setting aside the $400/month to replace/repair our cars ever 6 years. And the subaru will be inherited by our kid when she turns 16.

I have to say I'm still torn about used versus new. Our used car has been decent but in the 2 years needed calipers done along with brakes and rotors. I don't know if its because it's a hyundai versus a toyota/subaru so the reliability is the issue, instead of it being used.

But the minivan? We'll see where we are financially. I'd like to pay off the cars this summer but we'll see.

Guess I'll start tracking some extra cash I seem to make doing focus groups. I am curious what I made this year. I just usually use the prepaid visa cards to pay for cable or cell phone bills online and not hassle with it. Otherwise it's on auto-pay. And I don't count rewards I only cash them in once a year.

Survey Money
6/23 $100 - 30 minutes
6/11 $150 - 120 minutes
5/1 $225 - 90 minutes
3/18 $150 - 60 minutes
3/13 $85 - 45 minutes
2/28 $175 - 60 minutes
1/27 $125 - 45 minutes

Total = $1010

It's a great hourly rate. Too bad it's so infrequent that it's just an occasional side hustle.

So I left STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) when I had my kids. At least the academic side. I'm not sure I want to go back to what I did for a private company. Both my perspective has changed and what I did is changing.

Science phds in many fields often take years (I can attest). Overall it's a cushy job and one that is often easy to fall into the trap.

You get paid $33k/year. Yes that's it. When my DH started in 2000 it was $18k/year. I started in 2003 at $22k/year. So it's gone up but it's not exactly a living wage. However you get student health insurance, aren't required to pay tuition, and while you work long hours there is a lot of job flexibility. Realize I also lived in very HCOLA and went to top institutions. According to the

NIH, the average graduate student stipend is $22k. So people living elsewhere pay less. Also being in STEM means a stipend, those in liberal arts and humanities well they go into debt.

But in my experience after you finish your long slog you go into post-doctoral training. The NIH again says the starting salary is $42k. When I stopped in 2010 where I was it was $35k. Now how do you suppose they get around paying less? Well the post-doctoral funding is not through the NIH but other funding entities and thus professors are able to pay less than the NIH recommended going rate. But $42k? And it goes up to $55k after 7 years. You are probably thinking not bad. Not way. Truth is most post-docs don't get that sort of raises after 7 years. And while they are covered by medical insurance, they often lack access to a 401k. That means they aren't saving for retirement.

So you are 30 when you finish your phd, start a post-doc and if you are lucky done in another 7 years and 37 with no retirement or any savings unless you were super frugal. Which many are. But you are still far behind your peers who was working since 22 and saving. My DH and I were super frugal savers and bought a condo as I mentioned during graduate school. But we were the outliers I believe and not the norm.

So what happens after post-doc? In theory you get a position as a professor somewhere. But nowadays it doesn't happen. Why? Well NIH and other entities are cutting funding. Getting a position is easier now than getting a grant. But getting a position is next to impossible. The joke is someone needs to die for a position to open, which in many cases is true. Because schools have to budget not just money but space for a new professor.

Do I know people who are still post-docs? Sadly yes MANY. Many have been "post-docs" on 7+ years. They work full time, very hard, very long hours and make honestly very little.

I have a mom friend whose career track was similar to mine. She does her post-doc with two kids and I ask her if it's worth it. She has been a post-doc since 2007. She said she hopes so one day. She still dreams of a position. It doesn't matter that she pays to work (daycare costs more than she makes). I can see the financial part of the equation being negligent long term, daycare is a short term expense. What I don't get when do you give up the dream? When do you accept that you won't get a professorship position you desire? 10 years? When you hit 50? I also know 50 year old post-docs who have been there for 15 years and call it their "career" to work for someone else but still dream.

I don't know what the answer is. DH's best friend is another STEM post-doc since 2007. He is at a crossroads. Does he give up? Or does he keep trying? He really is in turmoil because at 37 he's recently married (cheap wedding post), hoping to start a family, wants to buy a house and car, and is finally getting serious about saving for retirement. But what if a job pops up and they have to move? What if he doesn't get a position? When should he give up? He talks about it with us, since we're all in the same field. My DH said give up now. Me? I'm not so sure.

Personally I left the post-doc on the table for myself. Never did one and probably never will. I don't want to work and pay someone else to watch my kids when they are small. And if I wanted to go back, I still wouldn't do one because I don't want to work the long hours anymore. Even without kids I think I would have done something else because even before I finished I knew I personally didn't have what it took to be a professor. I wasn't successful enough (ie published enough). And going to do a post-doc isn't going to change that.

So I'm taking my time now to look at other options. Was it a mistake? Yes, but the mistake I made was way back in undergraduate not considering then what I wanted to do long term. Graduate school wasn't the mistake.

What would I have done? Probably become an actuary or accountant. And now? I am looking into becoming an enrolled agent or accountant/bookkeeper. This way I can work but not full time and enjoy number crunching.

Did you go into what you majored in college? Do you like it? Was it what you expected?

Do you know how much your health insurance premiums have risen over the years? I was just looking at old pay stubs and I can't believe how much they have gone up. As a couple from 2005-2010 we had seen some large increase 25% in 1 year. I am floored. Because the overall dollar amount isn't large I haven't paid as much attention as I should have. But looking now I'm in shock.

As a couple
2005 $46 per pay period (26)= $1196
2006 $46 = $1196
2007 $32 = $832, they switched providers
2008 $40 = $1040, 25% increase
2009 $42 = $1096 , 5% increase

However in 2010 we had our first child and moved to the family plan in medical health insurance.

2010 $46 Couple (moved to family) $82 = $2132, 9% increase as a couple, so I assume 9% family.
2011 $84 = $2184, 2.5% increase
2012 $96 = $2496, 14.2% increase
2013 $101 = $2626, 5.2% increase
2014 $119 = $3094, 17.8% increase

Wow we've seen some serious increases. Apparently the insurance company raises it one year A LOT and then not by much the next year. In the grand scheme of things $3100 in premiums for our family is not a lot. But we still have to pay $20/visit copays. When everything is said and done we spend around $5k with premium and copays.

Is it worth it? Yes because employer sponsored programs are much better than what you can buy as an individual. But still when I see a 17.8% increase I cringe knowing that our 3% merit raise is really not going as far.

I went online to shop for a family of four with $2k individual/$4k family deductibles; Maximum annual OOP $6350 individual/$12,700 family, with $50 co-pay after deductible is $596.71/month! Ouch. Okay so I guess we'd better keep working or at least wait and see how health insurance works out. I mean we could easily have a higher deductible but it doesn't appear to be an option where we live.

Mr Money Mustache pays for a family of 3 $240/month HDHP. BUT where he lives is substantially cheaper. It really does vary because in the comment section of his post many commentors are unable to get their premiums for individual policies that low. So YMMV in buying your own. I can't believe that ours would be nearly 2x what his is monthly.

Our dental costs $20.90 a pay period = $543.4/year. The question is would it be cheaper for us to self insure? Not really with cleanings for a family of 4 (well 3) 2x a year at $100-150/pop we are looking at a minimum of $600 OOP at a minimum. And this year like last I still am having an implant crown put on. Which by the way the insurance company doesn't want to pay to put on! Arrgh.

Our vision is $6.54 a pay period = $170/year which used to be easily reached with me getting contacts every year (got a year for free with insurance). But I'm not sure now it's still worth it with a check up being $49 elsewhere. But for $170 maybe it's worth the peace of mind.

I am still just floored at how fast health insurance appears to be going up. Way above raises and cost of living inflation. And it's still a lot cheaper than buying our own.

Well my day yesterday started off eventfully. My younger kiddo rolled off the bed and cut her face. She needed stitches. She's fine thankfully but boy it was a lot of blood and screaming. This is my accident prone kid. Oh well.

So my issue? The american health care system. We called the pediatrician and went in at 830 to see the nurse practitioner. She says you need stitches go to the ER. I ask why not do it in the office? Or do you refer out to a different dr. Nope the ER. So we go to the ER for sutures. SERIOUSLY? She said the dr don't have the right equipment and don't do it enough to be comfortable doing sutures. Okay then. We go there at 8:45.

I thought I keep reading about all these people who use the ER as care facilities driving up the cost of healthcare. I am now one of these people and I WENT to my supposed "gate keeper" pediatrician and got sent to the ER! Okay how can they say the prices of health insurance is out of control because people don't use primary care dr when the primary care dr don't know what else to do? Besides the fact I was annoyed I could have gone straight to the ER, but I "thought" I was doing the right thing.

And besides the fact that we were there waiting for sutures and didn't leave the ER until 2 pm! 5 hours! really? It wasn't busy we were like the only people in there but we had to wait for staff to come on? The inefficiency left me incensed. But my kiddo is fine and I am not sure if I should have taken her to a plastic surgeon or surgeon office where it could have been done in the office and faster. Arrgh.

On a positive note I made $150 on a focus group about taxes. Granted my money went straight to our ER copay. And I didn't learn anything. If anything I learned that people really don't save money.

There was a real guy standing up in front of the class showing us his financials. Here they are married with 1 child.

Income $112k
Paid Federal Taxes $10,700
SS $6900
Medicare $1624
State $4750
401k $4480 (4%)
Health Insurance Premium $6k (HDHP)
HSA $2k
Mortgage/Property Taxes $16k

Federal Taxes owed - $7700, refund $3k

Not a big deal, but seriously this guy is living on $6200/month and he can't save more? I don't think he was saving for a Roth IRA. I sat there wondering why wouldn't the guy be saving more? Isn't he worried? Where is the rest of his $4400/month going to after he pays his mortgage?

It's easier to trim a dollar in the budget than to try and save more. But it was very eye opening about how people are trying to save for retirement in this country.

Yes. They certainly aren't cheap. Whether you work or stay at home there is a lot of lost opportunity cost in having children. Staying at home you've lost those years of income. Working? Well daycare might cost more than you make (yes I have friends working to keep skills up, not because they make more than daycare).

But otherwise? Yes. You are on a family medical plan instead of perhaps two individual plans covered by your employer. There are A LOT more dr visits because kids catch everything and parents catch everything from their kids. Kids are gross and disgusting.

Let's not forget college.

Can kids be done on the cheap? Sure, they can be relatively inexpensive. I breastfeed and used cloth diapers sometimes. Those are savings when they are babies.

But overall you are feeding, clothing, and needing more space as a family. Yes kids can share a room, but if you didn't have kids, would you even have a two bedroom place? I mean that most seriously since DH and I lived happily in 1 bd/studios with less than 500 sq ft and our dog.

I mean without kids we could live super small and super cheap. But kids do increase your cost of living. Without kids we would probably not live outside the city so we'd need 1 less car or no car. We could bike but with kids it's hard to bike to the grocery store or any errands, especially when they are young and always with you. We'd live in a tiny apartment. We would buy less food. And honestly we'd probably be able to retire by 40!

So people who talk about kids don't cost much have got to be kidding. Kids are substantially more than just diapers, formula, college, food, clothes. There are so many sneaky costs. Do I believe it costs $250k? Probably, I mean just rent alone where we are it's probably doubled from moving up apartment size. And yes I know people raise kids on very little money. But if you asked those same people how much kids costs? It's still probably the same proportion of their income as those who make 2x as much.

But the kids are worth it every penny, too bad they don't cost pennies.

I gotta get better at this food photo thing. I'm so jealous of Nika food photos (they are amazing). I only do it with a phone and I'm a terrible photographer to boot.

But anyway this weekend it was smoked pork ribs and quinoa with corn and broccoli.

I'm also making homemade marinara sauce and baked ziti. I'll see if I can take a better photo.

Seriously I know I can take better photos of food.

My neighbors both work and have 1 child, 3 months older than my 4 year old. They play great together and she's a lovely girl. I enjoy watching her and she's a truly great kid. My neighbors are nice people. They both have MBAs and are a couple of years older than my DH and I. We live connected by a wall and my 4 year went to school and once said "the little girl living behind the wall, I play with her all the time," to the teachers. When I explained we all had a good laugh.

So you can imagine this family probably makes double what my DH makes. At least that's what my DH and I believe. So $400k/year? Probably but at the minimum $300k.

So what happened is I volunteered to keep their daughter 2 full days next week while they work because they don't have childcare. Their private montessori school is out and they can't find a camp to send her to. The other three days they are going to use backup care agency and have a nanny they don't know come to their house. I feel terrible whenever I see that happen because I know the nanny just sits there with their daughter in the house. And she's pretty bored. So yes I always offer during school vacations or days off to take their kiddo with mine. I've been doing this for years. I can't do everyday of the week because of other obligations but I do try my best.

The same problem will occur at the end of the summer when the week before school they were "waitlisted" for the camp they are in the rest of the summer because they didn't register early enough. They registered in January. I'm not sure I'm ready to take her on 5 full days, so I suggested half day camp for the week with my older kiddo and I'll keep her the rest of the day. I have to find a camp I can afford however.

Right now I've signed my kid up for one camp @ $90/week for half days, and I feel super guilty spending that much. I know they could take vacation but they are taking 2 weeks in July when their parents come to visit and have used another week during spring break and more during Christmas. So they do take vacation to care for their daughter, but this is a lot.

But what stunned me? The price of her camp. Okay her montessori school is ridiculous enough at $35k/year. But the camp? Well try $1200/week. Yes a week! Seriously what they are shelling out in camp is about what my family lives on with our extremely expensive mortgage a month!

To be fair they make double what we make. But even doubling our spending to $10k/month when half of it goes to camp? They shop entirely at whole foods and probably never price compare. I know they dress themselves and their daughter in great name brands and they get boxes daily delivered from online shopping. They never shop in real stores. So even while I assume they are saving a lot, they also spend a lot. Their monthly overhead has got to be high.

But on this forum we always talk about spending and money. So I discussed with my DH if I went back to work and we had all this extra disposable income. Every penny would be disposable obviously since we can survive on his now minus childcare. Yes I may pay right now for childcare but that is a transient expense. So would our lifestyle change? I would hope not.

But the real question is would I be able to spend that freely if I made that much? If we were making $30k/month gross and were saving $5k, taxes $10k, and had $15k to spend would I? I think I would be saving every extra penny and would shorten our time toward financial independence.

I realized no I wouldn't. I can honestly say I can see the exhaustion on my neighbors faces. I can see how they can barely play with their daughter. Their actual comment "we are trying to cut back her tv watching." They never go out on the weekends except to eat. They'll send her to the playground with us but they don't join us. The fact that they are struggling to be able to cover watching her because they are already using all their vacation days. Every day they are on the hamster wheel. So perhaps my DH and I are giving up FI and early retirement, but we're also enjoying our life now. We'll get there eventually but it'll be slower.

What would happen if they were on 1 income? Or two part-time incomes? Right now they give their daughter the best of everything. She'll probably go to college of her choice paid, paid wedding, house DP, etc.

I wonder if perhaps it's the catch-22 of the "upper middle class" dual income lifestyle? The people making enough that they feel they should afford everything but can't. And somehow manage to spend an enormous amount on just "bare bones budget" because their choices force them into needing so much money? The cars, the big mortgage, the private schools, etc?

Recently I've definitely made peace with our lifestyle. In the sense before I wondered if I wasn't "achieving" enough. I am not contributing to society by working. I am not using my degree. I am not producing as a fully functioning adult "should" be. I feel inadequate compared to the many high power dual income couples I meet and know. Where I chat with the nannies rather than moms since I know them better.

But this year I've made peace with it. I've made peace with my decision to stay at home. That I do not need to work to validate myself. That even if I chose to work, money doesn't rule my life. So whatever I chose to do I know our lifestyle will be okay. If my DH loses a job we are not going to crash and burn and never retire.

Rather we could possibly "retire" now. Now I feel secure that I do not need $3M at a minimum to retire. I think $1.5M is adequate if not less. And I don't feel pressured that we have to work until retirement or else we'd be shunned for being lazy.

Money can bring great happiness. But rather being content with what you have is more important.

So I look across the wall and realize that if I went back to work we could be my neighbors. It's possible we'd be financially independent in 2 years. We could possibly save $200k/year or more. But it's also possibly we'd up our consumption just because we'd have to. We'd need more convenience because we have less time. I hope they enjoy their daughter as much as I do. I will say I do have envy sometimes at the thought they could be FI today possibly (not sure about their finances, I think they have a lot in the bank because they make a lot) while we still need to work another 5-10 years to get to where they are.

Have you ever contemplated your money or your life? Did you make a choice to scale back or retire early? Or take a different job or move to slow down? Why?