LivingAlmostLarge's Personal Finance Blog

So I'm almost done with my second kickstarter and 1st month in a transformer. I'm meeting the transformer goal and it's iffy for the kickstarter although I think I'll make it. Anyway I have to say one of my biggest weaknesses in losing weight has always been eating out.

Even before kids I when we were DINKS I limited my eating out lunches because my shorts wouldn't fit otherwise. So bad for pocketbook, bad for figure.

But I noticed this time it is a lot easier to lose the weight because we've been on a moratorium on eating out. Since we've moved and been "retired early" or on sabbatical we've curbed a lot of our spending. We are living pretty frugally and probably closer to $2k/month, excepting the dog costs (chemo is expensive).

Our biggest budget change we control is definitely eating out. I mean yes we spend about $100/month on gas for cars versus $300/month. And our utility bill was $90 this month versus $500-600/month previously. But that we couldn't really control.

But eating out? Well we used to spend if I had to guess because while mint.com does a good job, it's not perfect and there are cash eating out. We spent around $400/month. Our grocery bills averaged $500-600/month, and now they are a solid $750/month. But we eat out under $50/month and the kids are eating more as they get bigger.

I'm not sure if this moratorium will last after DH gets a job. But it's been eye-opening on how much we ate out. It's also been good for us to get back into the habit of cooking more.

When we ate out before it was always the weekends. Compared to most of our friends we cooked "a lot" because most people we knew ate out during the week and weekends. Even now many people we know eat out during the week and weekends.

Do you know how much you eat out? Do you do it because you enjoy it or for convenience? Most would say convenience and I have to agree. It's a lot of work to cook, do dishes, clean up, etc.

But I admit I did miss experimenting with cooking. Last night I made Rolo Cupcakes. And this week we had tacos, burgers, ma po tofu.

On the agenda for next week? Shrimp tempura, fish and chips, and other stuff from the pantry.

But first I have to win my kickstarter.

So the job hunt is in full swing for DH. It's actually been a weird schedule. Good in some ways and odd in others. He's able to be home in the mornings, except tomorrow. Tomorrow he's going to volunteer at a conference and has to be there at 6:30 am to check people in. He's valued his time at $150 for 90 minutes. Not a bad investment.

But he's been out many evenings at networking events which means instead he's been gone till around bedtime. Last week it was Mon, Wed, Thurs, Friday. This week it's been Tues, Thur, Fri, Sat, Sun. So the crazy busy schedule I think won't stop until he finds a job.

The bootcamp has made a lot of good suggestions for the job hunt including applying to 10 jobs a week. They've also had panels of prior students come and talk about how they did their job hunts.

Right now my DH has been focusing on studying for the technical exams and networking his way into companies he sees posting for. He hasn't quite been on schedule with applying to as many jobs as suggested and I'm worried he's being a perfectionist. He's obsessing over every job being perfect and the perfect application and not applying.

But either way he's got to find his groove and a position that suits him. Fingers crossed. He's got a couple of phone interviews next week. He also decided to expand his job hunt because there were positions he really was interested in not the local area. I agreed reluctantly because I like it here and don't want to move. But I said if we move this is it. I don't want to move for a job that he felt would only last for 2-3 years and move again. It has to be a dream job.

Here's hoping and praying that things go well. As for me? I found a couple of bootcamps myself I'm interested in and have emailed them to inquire about future job prospects. I'm curious about their placement for part-time work versus a full time positions. How does it work doing a bootcamp as a parent. Some of these programs are women focused but reading the blogs and profiles of students who've gone through the program it's been noted that no one whose gone through has been a mom. Why I'm not sure. Probably not lack of ability but lack of time commitment? Inability to commit because of kids? These are questions I have. Anyway right now it's a pipe dream since DH has to find his dream job and we have to settle in and then perhaps I can find some time to carve out my own niche.

I did the quiz Dido posted because I was curious.

Money Avoidance = 1.00

Your score on the money avoidance scale suggests that you do not exhibit significant money avoidance beliefs. In fact, research has shown that your score on this scale is similar to those who have been identified as wealthier, wiser, and more highly educated.

Money Worship = 2.57

Your money worship score suggests that you do not endorse significant levels of money worship beliefs.

Money Status = 1.00

Your score on the money status scale shows that you do not hold money status beliefs.

*Money Vigilance = 3.38

Your money vigilance score indicates that you endorse money vigilance beliefs.

I trimmed it down but basically I watch money but don't worship it. I think that's a pretty accurate portrayal of my financial beliefs.

Something I noticed as a I get older is that many people are torn about money status. They want the luxuries that they see and as they get older they are better able to afford it. I think it's okay as long as they can afford it. But I wonder if people's attitudes to money script changes as they age and can afford more? I think I'm a lot more liberal than before.

So is there another housing bubble? I don't know but things are nuts. Both the place we left and the place we moved to.

Our old neighbors just listed their house for $849k and over the weekend they got 4 awesome offers, 3 without contingencies. They got three offers above $900k+ without inspection contigency or mortgage contigency. CRAZY. My spiritual neighbor said these people are nuts. They didn't even bother with a bidding war the number was so high that they took it and ran before this person came to their senses she said. She wouldn't give me a final number but will when they closed. Their realtor was in tears over how high it was. For perspective this was a 3 bd/1.5 bath, 1700 sq ft house with detached garage, cute but 1920s arts and crafts home. No inspection is NUTS. Slap some lipstick on the pig. I'm so happy for them because they deserve it. Yeah I came from a very expensive area.

But then where we moved? Well people are apparently crazy stupid here. Had tea and playdate with another neighbor few houses down and she said they went $80k over asking on a house and lost it by $1500! The house was in the neighborhood we were in 3 bd/2.5 ba, 1800 sq ft listed at $550k and sold for $630k also no contingencies. She said they waived the inspection contingency but kept the mortgage contingency. OMG. I nearly died over the bad financial decision making and she doesn't seem like a stupid person.

I actually asked if they get to buy a home if perhaps DH and I could talk to their landlord about renting since they are in a 4 bd house renting for $2600 or $200 more a month than we pay. I might as well take advantage of potentially a cheap place to live if I hear about.

Talking more with DH we're getting more on the fence with buying. His take beside if you buy and hold it doesn't matter if price drops is you have a place to live. But now he said perhaps it's better to keep letting it run up then either price correct or flatten. That way if you buy at that point perhaps it's 10-20% more than now but at the same time you have peace of mind that you've preserved your equity?

I hate this feeling of unknown.

So I sold my double bob revolution stroller on Craigslist. We aren't having a third and if we do I don't need a double stroller anymore. I had a lot of trepidation and just overall sadness. The idea of no more kids was hard but that's another post for another day.

So anyway I got a lot of interest but I just had to get rid of it asap. I listed it for $400 and got offers of $350-$400 but only one person could come ASAP to meet and get it. So I said yes for $375. I mean you know how craigslist can be. People sometimes are late, flake, etc. You meet in a public area and sometimes are stuck waiting. As it was my DH waited 30 minutes for the guy stuck in traffic.

I posted it with all defects and all extras listed and photographed. It was a 2012 manufactured date but I hadn't bought it until May 2013 and I had the receipt for it from REI.

But around 6 pm the guy calls and asks to return the stroller. His wife decided she didn't like it. It wasn't what she wanted and they wanted to meet up and get their money back. It had been an impulse purchase

After discussing it my DH and I felt bad but decided no returns. We didn't want to drive another 30 minutes and wait to get our money back then sell it to another person. Were we wrong? I did suggest giving back $350 and keeping $25 for our time and gas. But my DH was annoyed and said no way. He tried out the stroller, opened it up, looked at it, tested it, and saw all photos. He refused to waste more time and go meet the buyer again. But we called and explained the situation and the buyer said he appreciated the call since he wasn't expecting any response.

Has this ever happened to you on Craigslist? Have you ever returned anything?

I've always been ambivalent about financial independence and early retirement or FIRE. I am so impressed by those who do it Mr Money Mustache and quit a few other blogs like the frugalwood, Dr Doom, root of good, etc. Now the only one who really retired was Dr. Doom. Frugalwoods, root of good, and even Mr M stayed at home with small children and a spouse that worked. By that logic I'm RE. But I don't see it that way. Mr M now has the the benefit of a multi million dollar blog, but the others aren't there yet.

I guess that's the million dollar question. I've also read a blog about a young 30 year old couple who did choose to FIRE on $1M literally and that's it. I guess I'm unsure since retirement will last say 50 years you can't draw 4%/year. And honestly I worry about the cost of healthcare as we age.

For those couples who still have one spouse working it's fine. You get employer provided health insurance. But for those who really pull the trigger, after our "sabbatical" year I have to say that health insurance makes both people in a couple with kids especially dicey to retire early and not worry about it.

Who knows if Obamacare will ever be repealed. If so will those on it with pre-existing conditions be relegated to "ghetto" pools? Paul Ryan mentioned how much cheaper it would be to repeal Obamacare and toss everyone who is expensive into one pool. But what happens to those people? We know many people don't want to subsidize them but that's how forcing insurers to not exclude them makes Obamacare work. I'm not sure what the answer is. I guarantee and so has every economist said that an open market health policy that allows insurers to not provide insurance to those most at risk mean more people would go without.

So how can one FIRE as a couple in the US without substantial assets? I fully support the idea of living frugally. I also support the idea of financial independence. But I am not sure how to fully determine financial independence? Also how will we know if the retire early part of the equation is successful? That FIRE on $20k/year or $12k/year for a family of four will work in 20 years?

Is the only answer to wait and see? What happens if in your 50s after 20 years of retirement big expenses and medical bills crop up? Do you go back to work then? What happens if you don't have a cushion for your living expenses?

I like SA because people here seem to have a balance of saving and spending. I've realized I can't FIRE like others who are mustachian. I don't want to live on $12k or $20k/year. I guess there is a lot of truth that while we try to live frugally we still have a lot of excessive spending. And without inherently changing our "wants" LAL and Mr LAL won't be retiring without a lot more in the bank.

Do you picture yourself retiring on $12k or $20k/year? Could you? Would you? Have you?

I just wanted a quick post about life. We're super happy. All of us. It's weird and good at the same time.

My DH left yesterday singing because he was so excited by almost being done. Today is hiring day and he left in an even better mood, excited, nervous, but at the same time ready. I can't explain I haven't seen him this excited about work in a long time. He likes what he does more than he has in a long, long time. Turns out the move he was against 2 years ago has been the best thing that ever happened to him. He's even said so recently. Cliche but sometimes what you need is the thing you fight the hardest against.

The kids are enjoying the milder weather and my older kid is dying for the 80s again. When will it warm up? I laughed and said next week. She said I don't miss the snow we can see it from our house. HAHAHA and I don't have to shovel it (that's my comment mentally!) She said we don't even have to wear coats or boots. What a lovely "winter".

As for me? Yesterday some friends came over to play and both ladies said they wanted to go out in May to celebrate my upcoming birthday. I said YES. And then I said I have friends to them. They stared at me and I said it's been a work in progress moving and I admitted it's hard but I feel like I'm settling in and developing roots. That I have people I can talk to. I am getting to know the area and knowing my favorite places to eat and go.

I bought memberships to places like the zoo and children's museum. We're hosting friends this weekend for a BBQ. We're being hosted again and DK1 is doing T ball.

I guess we're all just feeling better about the move. It's crazy that 1 year ago this weekend we were listing our house. That 13 months ago we had no idea we'd turn our lives upside down and do this. But we have and it's turned out great. Well good emotionally for us. Financially DH has to land a job, but honestly even if it were a salary cut since he's singing and enjoying what he does I can't seem to care. He's happy again and maybe it's the location, maybe it's the work, maybe it's a combination of both.

But soon we'll know if the gamble pays off. I'll post more later about some thoughts I have about being financially independent and retiring early.

I read the article in the atlantic. It's here. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

It's really well written. Yes the author makes a ton of excuses. The author really couldn't afford his lifestyle ever. He was a writer who probably should have lived somewhere cheap. This article on vox discusses people moving because they don't make enough. http://www.vox.com/2016/4/25/11503040/midwest-savings-atlantic

He's one of those people. He's someone who probably would have had problems even if he had moved but perhaps it wouldn't have been so severe.

I can't imagine hitting up my parents for their life savings for my kids to go to college. I can't imagine later paying for a wedding when I couldn't afford to pay for college. I can't imagine hitting up my grown child for money to pay my heating bill in old age.

But it happens. I had lunch playdate on Sunday at my friend's Ms DB. Her family is the one that made $300k last year and saved nothing. Her husband makes $200k/year and they save nothing. She said the only saving grace is the fact they don't use CC and only buy what they can afford.

But she said they are trying for the first time to budget. She said she took out $400 cash for 2 weeks of grocery shopping. They have no idea where to start but they are trying to see where all their money goes. Seriously making $15k/month gross and not saving a penny. I'm curious where their money goes too. $3k goes to rent she said and assuming $4k taxes and $1k medical premiums. That's still $7k/month unaccounted for.

I suggested mint.com but since they don't use credit cards she said it wouldn't work. They just use debit cards. Her husband when she brought it up said "we don't have CC debt so we're fine." But they can't find a way to save.

I suggested to her that they just maybe deposit $5k into a "Spending"account and use a debit card and that's it. Maybe they don't have to track every penny since I doubt her husband will. But maybe just set preset "saving" levels and with their income it won't matter.

But here's the truth of what I observed going to their house for the first time. And I really this she's a nice person and will make a good friend.

She's got 4 kids 8, 6, 4, and 2. The 8 and 6 year old each have flat screen tvs in their rooms. They both have ipads and kindles, and the 8 year old an xbox in his room. They have 2 big screen tvs in the two family room areas. There were toys everywhere and the house was very fun and cool. But I'm going to guess that their spending on the kids and stuff is more than 2x what I spend on my kids even though I have 2 kids to her 4. I don't think they proportionally spend double, more likely if i had to guess 4x as much.

I admit to being indulgent with our spending. We could very well cut many, many luxuries and have a very lean budget. But I know where my luxuries are and I'm okay with it. I make a conscious decision for each of my dollars giving it a "name."

I think that's why no matter what you earn you have to save. That even when you can outearn stupid you can still fall into the trap of living a lot higher off the hog if you don't. I didn't tell her but with a similar incomes our "burn rate" previously and now is about 1/3 what they are "burning" through every month. But I wouldn't expect her or her family to do that. She admitted it's shameful they can't seem to save.

I think that going into extreme savings mode would be to depriving. I think for them probably saving 15% is would a struggle and something they have to work up towards. I think starting out with maybe 5% and every 2-3 months increasing it would help easy the pain. And maybe for the rest of their lives they never go above 15%. It would still be better than nothing.

I know that she's trying to change. I maybe naive, but I'm crossing my fingers that they are able to turn things around. At least they aren't in debt.

In a funny turn of events DH has a call with a recruiter tomorrow. I am not sure it's a match. At least he is getting interest already and it's boosting his confidence. I have faith he'll do great. This week is hiring day so we shall see. Cross your fingers. We're about to find out if we gambled wisely or poorly. (as I type this I hear in my head the end scene of Indiana Jones and the last crusade)

I met someone who said they read the Mr Money Mustache blog. I nearly laughed but I couldn't say we're die hard followers before it was a word and that we were a case study. I said we're mustachian followers and have long been so.

I just found it so cool that I met someone in real life who might actually like the same things. I've always been a little odd in real life always looking for deals and watching our spending. It's a habit many on here share. It's not what you make, it's what you spend.

And people on here think nothing of watching every penny and making it shriek. The idea of spending freely is a hard thing to do once you get into the mindset.

But this new friend said their takeway from MM blog was that it was too rigid. They didn't want to retire early or save. Rather they decided that streamlining their life and simplifying their spending seemed like a good idea. That they would try to pay off debts and live more debt free, but it probably wouldn't change their retirement age.

I said that we love MM because he preaches freedom. That even if you are working, having a big savings gives you the freedom to say FU to any job or career. To move on and do what you want.

I think that even if people aren't into saving 75% of their income (we're not hard-core in that sense), MM can make sense even for the average person. Don't spend too much and save a little just in case you want to say FU one day to whatever you're doing.

Have you meet any other frugalites in real life?

After volunteering this week for our monthly shelter birthday party, I realized something. That anyone reading this blog, with a computer, internet access, and time probably has time to spend with their kids. We're very privileged in so many ways.

On SA we have a variety of incomes from poverty to 1%. We also all share a mindset of living below ones means and valuing our time. We've also got the privilege of clipping coupons, grocery shopping in bulk, going to thrift store, and just spending time with our kids.

Anyway we were playing at game at the shelter using colors and shapes. I realized that more than a few kids didn't know all the colors and shapes we were using. If I had to guess these kids hadn't been privileged enough to be read to by their parents. Their parents were probably too busy trying to not be homeless and scraping by to find the time to go to a library and read to them. Or talk to them about their day.

It's funny the difference it makes when you have help even if you are from a very low economic background. I was extremely privileged to have one on one "babysitting/nanny". I mean I was read to, fed, taken to the park/beach/playground/library, grocery shopped, etc. I was given immense attention and my vocabulary was developed by the amount of time I was spent being talked to in both a foreign and english language.

The truth is that my grandmother now lives on $500/month SS and I think $150 pension from Greylines (my grandfather drove a tour bus). She gets medicare and medicaid because she qualifies for welfare medical coverage. She never owned a home, and lives a good life now because her kids provide her with extras. I would say lower middle class is generous, they lived for years without a toilet/bathroom in the house (thus she babysat at my uncle/mom's houses yeah indoor plumbing!)

Anyway I realized these people at the shelter don't have a hand to help them up. They don't have free childcare, or help at nights. They probably don't have a car or time to spend with their kids reading and just playing and teaching. Even without money some people can spend the time. But when you are struggling to pay the rent, put food on the table, and medical bills it seems impossible to do more.

I just had a deep appreciation for how lucky I am to spend time with my kids and teach them everything I received. It's possible my mom didn't make more than some people on welfare but we were so fortunate that our bills were so minimal and we were helped out a lot by our family.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/20/elizabeth-warren-just-called-ted-cruz-a-whiner/

Have you read this twitter post by Elizabeth Warren? I had to laugh. I don't think her points only apply to Ted Cruz, they probably apply to all the candidates in the presidential race. The only thing is Ted Cruz was the only one who whined and complained about it.

He complained about campaigning and being away from family. I wonder did he consider what being president will do to his family? That it's not just a 9-5 job?

That from photos I don't know if other's noticed but GWB and Obama both looked really haggard after 8 years in office. They had a lot more white hair. They both looked extremely drawn and tired and aged. I mean if you look at 2000 and 2008 campaigning photos they looked energized and ready to go. But by the end both look worn, weathered, tired. I can't blame them. The job is exhausting, stressful, and extremely difficult. Every decision is difficult not to mention scrutinized.

But seriously Mr Cruz? You are complaining about running for office but you know that's what everyone else does everyday? That everyone else trying to make a living is probably living like that now.

I know we were hoping to buy and settle in but more and more the signs I think are pointing to renting long term. Maybe even moving into another bigger rental. What brought this on?

Well my neighbors with the 4 bd/2.5, 2000 sq ft home sold today for $712.5k. That makes it $313/sq ft, highest in the area and a record. My neighbors next door in July 2015 same exact layout, same size 4 bd/2.5 ba, 2000 sq ft home bought for $570k. So in 8 months (they bought the 1st weekend of March) the house went up $142.5k in 8 months or 25% in 8 months. The annualized return is 37.5% so the house should be worth in July $783k if the prices keep rising on track.

But I wonder what sort of people participate in a bidding war and end up paying $80k over asking price. Do they have any regrets? Was that always the plan and were they planning on spending more? Did they realize they were setting a new bar for price/sq ft? Do they even care?

But I'm concerned. We left an expensive area for an area that is still cheaper but I'm wondering if in 1-2 years will be just as expensive? We sold around $400/sq ft and but that seemed to be the cap in the sense that it's going up maybe 3-5% a year. Not going 37.5%/year.

So right now I'm not sure it's a sustainable market. Maybe I'm wrong and it's time to buy before it goes up another 40%. But if it goes up another 40% then this "entry" level home will be $1 million.

Thoughts?

So we had a nice visit with my mom for a week, hence MIA. She asked me how long have you lived here now? I said 8 months almost. Crazy I blinked and fall, winter, and now spring is upon us. I am so excited that I haven't even felt the seasonal depression I expected. Of course I had moments of nostalgia but the beautiful 80+ degree weather has cheered me considerably.

So I sold my jumperoo for $40 and another of my 2016 items gone. I also threw out a worn out hairtie and I am trying to get rid of 30 items by tomorrow. My mom brought another 3 boxes of my stuff from home. Stuff like my old journals and stuff I want to look through before disposing. Of course I'm trying to dispose quickly because we don't have much space.

But otherwise when she was here it was great. We did all sorts of stuff like the zoo, children's museum aquarium, science center, and looking at houses. We also shopped for clothes and shoes (thank you mom for the kids). So we just did a lot and had fun.

But I unfortunately got a ticket for going 40 in a 30 mile zone. My mom was in the car and said she hadn't noticed since we were going downhill. I was speeding and should have been braking, but I wasn't tailing anyone, not on the phone or anything dangerous, we were just chatting and I didn't think much of not braking. UGGGH. The ticket is ridiculously expensive $160 but I'm more worried about my driving record and insurance.

Did I mention my DH is in his 10th week of his program and has 3 more weeks to go? He is literally 13 days until the end. With hiring day being 7 days away? He's nervous as heck and can't believe that we're this close. I'm dying to know if our gamble paid off. I have no idea what to expect job wise, benefit wise, pay. In someways it's harder than getting out of college and finding a job. There you sort of know, friends who found jobs first in your field or older mentors. Here it's something completely different and a big risk.

I'm losing faith in the political parties. I don't get it at all. I may not vote for Donald Trump or like him but I think he's right for once. He said both political parties are corrupt. That he's been winning and Bernie Sanders (I support) are winning but yet everyone says they can't be the nominees. That in a contested convention Donald Trump will never win.

I don't get it. If Donald gets the most votes, and people like Marco Rubio suspend their campaigns, then their delegates should be up for grabs right? I think if Donald leads why shouldn't he win the nomination?

As for Bernie well I think superdelegates are ridiculous and have always thoughts so. It should be solely based on the voting delegates. And he's won the last 7 of 8 states and has tremendous momentum. I don't get why he can't win and look at his fundraising! Oh yeah because the establishment doesn't want him to win like they don't want Donald Trump to win.

I think the cards need to fall where they fall and the politicians need to stop interfering. Ridiculous.

I'm disgusted. If I were a republican I'd probably consider voting for donald trump just to thumb my nose at people in DC for deciding what the rest of the country wants. I feel like voting for Bernie (I did) at least I contributed to the "political revolution." But it seems like the establishment on both sides just wants the average joe to fall into line with what they want.

Hillary or Paul Ryan. Who cares what anyone else wants.

OMG I feel so embarrassed. I ratted out a nanny. I have never done something like this and I always thought I would. But honestly it's a lot harder than you think when faced with it. I can easily return something but turning someone in for a situation you could be "misjduging" is hard. I understand the bystander effect. I'm hoping that if I will speak up and realize it's okay.

So I was walking with my DKs into a Barnes and Nobles. A boy about 8-9 maybe younger I couldn't tell, was holding a dog and crying outside. He asked me to go in and look for his nanny. I said no, and instead I offered to hold the dog and let him go look for his nanny. I was uncomfortable looking for a woman I had no idea what she looked like.

So we waited with the dog outside. I took a photo of the dogs ID tags with the family's contact information. After they came out we went in and I heard the nanny telling the kid he should have left the dog tied up or in the car. It was his fault. I wasn't sure what to make of it.

Torn, I was encouraged to email the mom and I did including the photos of the dog's tags to explain how I got their contact information. I explained the situation and didn't judge just said I had your dog outside a bookstore while your son looked for his nanny.

I received a response that the mom will be investigating the incident because she wasn't aware they had taken the dog out and what happened. I have no idea whether I overstepped and perhaps the nanny has been a long term employee. I feel bad also because I could have been overreacting and cost someone their job.

I write this a bit in guilt torn over maybe getting someone fired and at the same time worried over a kid and potentially an irresponsible nanny.

Trust me I worried about overreacting, considering I had just yelled at my kids for locking me out of the house earlier in the day. My DK2 keeps locking doors driving me nuts as she's locked me in the garage from the house and I've had to go around the house to get back in. So I do worry I was misunderstanding the situation.

I hope either way it works out.

Interesting thread about how to spend money and use your debit card. I know many who follow Dave Ramsey say "use a debit card." I think even Dave Ramsey has said it's okay.

But I have to disagree. I'm a credit card user without an issue. But I think a debit is too easy to abuse. I think if you have a problem with spending the only way to curb it is cash. If you have trouble with credit cards it's just as easy to spend on a debit card. The bank will keep letting you spend and you'll rack up overdraft fees.

I also think that it's super easy to spend without following spending by swiping a card. But if you had cash and tracked every penny it's harder. Also if you are married or partnered up and sharing an account it's easy for both parties to overspend.

I find we need a CC to track our spending since we don't use cash. Also because we both spend independently it prevents overdraft. But this has worked for 15+ years and we aren't big spenders and haven't ever paid interest. So I'm not concerned.

But for people getting out of debt? I wonder if cash doesn't make it easier?

We had a nice weekend and I had a great Saturday night dinner out. With other moms I'd meet and started to develop friendships with. I mentioned how hard it was, that I was enjoying the area but making friends wasn't easy. And people are very nice but friendship takes time and effort.

I previously mentioned a few weeks ago I felt after months of seeing a couple of moms weekly for group speech therapy I finally felt it clicking. The same thing now. Went out to dinner with a few friends and I felt I could breathe. I was like "wow this is really feeling like home, I can do this."

On Sunday we went to a classmates birthday party and I'd meet a lot of the parents. One mom in particular started to spill everything out to me. She too moved here in July just because. They didn't like where they were living and her husband is a contractor so he works 100% from home. They decided to try it here and she hates it. They are considering moving again this summer to another state (texas).

Since like us they had to pay for their move she said her husband wanted to give it another year. But they both weren't in love with the area. And her son was in kindergarten and she wondered how it would hurt to move again so soon or move after 2 years?

I told her do it. If she wasn't happy here then move. Without a job or family (they are both foreigners no family anywhere in the US) then find somewhere they fit in. I told her it was "okay" to hate it here. I wasn't going to tell her to give it time. I told her I wasn't going to tell her it would get easier. I also told her if that's how she felt it's okay. Not everywhere is perfect for everyone and you make mistakes. She asked me if I loved it? I said yes but it's different for us. We chose to move where we are consciously with many factors involved.

She said she felt so guilty because when she brought it up to others how hard it was they kept saying give it another year. Give it more time she'd learn to like it. I was the first person to say move on and it's okay to hate it.

I didn't tell her but everyone said that to me where we used to live. People all the time would tell me I'd grow to like it. I should make the best of it. Not one person believe me when I said we were going to leave. They thought "oh you've been here 10 years and you haven't left. You're just complaining." I wish someone had been supportive and told me it's okay to hate it. It was okay to be counting the days.

Truth is that sometimes people do need a change. And hearing someone is unhappy in a new area the answer isn't to tell them "give it more time, or you'll adjust." Sometimes it's just giving them the words that it's okay to feel how you feel. That it's okay to hate it.

I was sad in missing our friends after we left. But I never looked back or regret leaving where we moved from. I never in 10 years felt like it was home. It never was. It was a temporary place holder in life. My DH would never go back and we'll never leave the west coast again period. I certainly won't and if he choose a job over us then he can go solo but I know he won't. He's already been recruited by multiple companies and refused to talk to them. We're home and we're happy and the kids are getting settled. I'm making friends and my DH I think is happier since I'm just happier and more relaxed. But the truth is he missed home (very close to where we are) and he didn't know it till he saw it again.

Why would we leave? Now we're those people who could tell others to give it chance. But I won't. Instead I know what it feels like to have people pat you on the hand and say "give it time." Instead I say "it's okay it's not for everyone. You aren't a bad person for hating it. If moving back or elsewhere makes you happier do it."

I hope this mom finds a place to call home that makes her family happy. I know my nephew also living in the area is counting the months until Fall 2017 when he leaves for his MBA program. He hates it and is sucking it up because switching jobs and moving for 18 months doesn't make sense. But he hates it here and I can't blame him. I just hope he can survive 18 more months.

So we have internet for $65 a month with the only cable/internet company we have. Can you say monopoly? And we use so many GB of data averaging 200 GB we can't just use cell phones.

So right now we have amazon prime to watch and use an antenna to watch regular shows. But my kids are asking about disney jr and nick jr. They would love to watch shows. We allow 1-2 shows a day, usually one in morning and one in the afternoon before dinner. Otherwise the TV isn't on. DH and I barely have time to watch tv so we usually turn on TV maybe 1 show a night if that. DH does like to watch sports and with the antenna he's got trouble catching all channels. We have the best flat antenna out there for "cord cutters".

Anyway a friend suggested SlingTV for watching disney jr but it's $25/month. $20 for slingtv and $5 for kids package. But I can't help but wonder if it wouldn't be cheaper for us to just get a regular cable box for $25/month then we'd have local channels and stuff like TBS, USA, Disney/Nick jr etc for the same price?

We wouldn't have to worry about streaming? The question right now isn't should we spend the $25/month, because I think we're coming around to indulging the kids a little. Cost less than buying the stupid shows on amazon. But what's the most cost efficient way? My friends who are getting slingtv do it out of principal because it cost them the same as regular cable but they hate the cable company and won't give them a penny more than internet. Because I said $25/month is as much as adding cable and they said they had run the numbers and it's about the same honestly.

Thoughts? Experiences?

Here's the truth, some people are better at making "returns" on their college degree than others. The truth is that for many career tracks you need a college degree. It's very difficult in the US to go to graduate or professional schools without a bachelor's and even joint 6 year pharmacy programs are starting to give away bachelor's as well. But medical, dental, law, business, and most phd programs won't take you without a bachelor's. It's the way it is in the states (please correct me if i'm wrong).

Second there are many career tracks that a bachelors is absolutely necessary, but the pay is terrible like being a teacher, social worker, public health worker. Jobs that people might love but don't necessarily pay well. I think that perhaps people who choose careers that a degree is absolutely necessary should get paid more but they aren't. So perhaps the answer is loan forgiveness and it should be "highlighted and encouraged" for those who choose low paying careers with lots of debt. Another option is pushing for those who choose such careers to maybe go to a community college then transfer to a four year institution to save money. I certainly would support either of my kids if they wanted to be a teacher or social worker but I'd tell them to do it as cheap as possible. I have A LOT of teachers in my family and my mom was a social worker. They would be the first to tell you the pay sucks but they loved their jobs. They would also agree it makes sense to do it as cheaply as possible.

Third there is the argument to be made that any degree will get you into the door of a corporate job. Even if the first job is being a bank teller, cashier, barista, or administrative assistant. That degree gives you an opportunity to move up.

My relative started at a costco punching a register with a college degree. She soon moved into corporate and started to "climb" the ladder till she quit to stay at home with the kids. Most of the people she knew started with college degrees in the warehouse then got promoted internally. It was rare to find someone just jumping into corporate without knowing the ins and outs of the company.

Second relative went into broadcasting. She did a degree in communications and started as an administrative assistant. Eventually she got to start writing her own new clips and filming. Then she got another promotion into directing or managing the 10 pm news. It all took paying her dues and working her way up. Many people do it.

I have friends who started as bank tellers at wells fargo, bank of america, and chase with college degrees and then worked their way into corporate. They are doing analyst, teaching tellers, etc. The entry level job was a stepping stone and the degree allowed them to move into something else.

I don't think that only "some" degrees valuable. I think that it's what you use it for and the purpose. I had a roommate who wanted to be a teacher and did. Her pay still sucks teaching 3rd grade, but she has been doing it now for ~15 years. She had lunch (on facebook) with a student from her 1st year of teaching who is a teacher now!!! OMG. She has inspired at least 3 previous students to become teachers themselves. I think her contributions are amazing. And imagine if someone had said "well teaching pays crap, you shouldn't do it." Where we would be today?

Did having a college degree help? Do you think it's needed today? Is it useless? Or is it still useful but tremendously expensive?

Since moving I've found karma a lot. A woman I met volunteering at the shelter and whom I've become friends with used to work with my cousin. Funny we were talking and she said "oh I used to work so and so". I laughed and said so did my cousin awhile ago. I showed her a picture and she said "Hey I know her." Turns out to be a smaller world than one would think.

Anyway recently I met a woman I went to elementary and middle school with at my DK1 t ball practice. Her kid plays on the same team. We got to talking and she said "oh we just moved here." I said from where and it turns out we went to 2nd to 8th grade. She then moved out of state and I stayed put. She sent me a picture of us on neighboring pages in the year book! OMG it was crazy. We moved to different states years later and meet.

She didn't recognize me and I didn't recognize her but it was weird. I felt bad because she said she'd found it really difficult being an "outsider" moving into a small town and fitting in. She said she was teased and it hard. I apologized in case I ever did anything terrible (I honestly don't remember her and seeing the picture looks familiar but we weren't friends). I hope that I wasn't terrible in anyway. It's weird how when you get older you don't recall being a terrible kid but it's possible that you were.

Anyway that's my karma story. I hope that if I did do anything "bullying" that giving a sincere apology might help my karma. Do you have any weird karma stories?

Okay I signed up for decluttering 2016 things in 2016. This is going to be crazy. I probably easily have that much stuff in boxes that I haven't opened since our move. We have been pulling stuff in and out of the garage with our kitchen stuff. Funny this new house is bigger than our condo was but the layout is different so we have less space for kitchen stuff but we can store more closet stuff like towels and bedding much more easily.

So now I am trying to get rid of 2016 things this year. Today I got rid of 2 things a puzzle and a stamp set by donating it to the preschool. Yesterday I got rid of easily 20 small things like bracelets, figurines, etc to the speech therapist.

I am going to use this blog to keep track of stuff I get rid of. Question does it count to get rid of stuff that is old and well used? Or broken? Or only donatable stuff or paper?

I don't know how to relieve my mom's anxiety. I know my in-laws are just as anxious and crazy but I let my DH deal with them. BOTH sets of parents are very financially well off. Both mom's are retired with pensions that pay at least 70% of their incomes. Both sets of dad's are working for no reason other than to not die.

Unfortunately both mom's have WAY to much time on their hands worrying about money. They both retired around age 55. My mom retired at 55 because it didn't make sense to keep working and my MIL because she took "disability" with the same condition DH has.

My mom had a state pension worth 2% per year of service, plus free medical premiums for her and my Dad for life which becomes secondary after she hits medicare age. Also their medicare premiums paid for by the state (thank you hawaii) after age 65. So my parents are basically living without a single worry with regards to medical. My in-laws live in Canada and also get an old age fund and they also have free medical for life. They are not suffering and my MIL had also a pension from the university for 2% of years of service. The most horrible thing they face? My FIL complained about being forced to start drawing on his RRSP (retired registered savings plan) by age 71 and he's 65 and hasn't touched a penny that he's saved since 25 for 40 years (my MIL in the same boat). They are "worried" about paying so much in taxes because they need to "spend" down the money. OMG!

Anyway my mom is already having a breakdown over her condo flooding from a neighbor and needing repairs when she gets upset at me for pointing out that insurance will cover it. The insurance is asking her to pay out of pocket and she'll be reimbursed. They are working on a settlement currently and my mom isn't used to doing any home repairs.

Long story my parents never repair homes they basically live in it and consider it disposable (it's a cultural thing trust me sounds nuts but it's true). They finally repaired the roof after it had been leaking for year and my DK1 said "Oh water is everywhere. We need more buckets." It wasn't lack of money but rather my parents just literally have no idea how to even hire people to do home repair. It took my mom 2 years to sell an empty house because she tried to "fix" it up and get just the blinds replaced, carpet replaced and then home cleaned to sell. So put into perspective my parents have lived in the house 25 years and are finally painting it, but the ceiling in two of the bathrooms fell down. And the "painting" of the house has been going on since AUGUST 2015 when we last visited. Because the painter can only paint and repair walls if my mom packs and cleans the house.

Anyway my mom was screaming at me over the phone for not understanding her stress over money. When I pointed out that she makes as much money now as she did working she said that's not the point. The point is that she's having to tap into her retirement funds. She's on a fixed income!!!! I pointed out that retirees who struggle are people who live on only SS! Yes they have a fixed income but it's not the same fixed income as when they were working!!!

She doesn't get it. That retirement money needs to be spent in retirement. That yes you can touch all that money you SAVED for 40 years. We got into it again because my mom yelled about not saving into her Roth IRA yet for 2016. My parents are 85 and 64 and "retired" but my dad works part time at 85 and they are SAVING $13k into a Roth IRA. My mom is still trying to save on her pension. I said why are you saving in a Roth IRA when you are retired? It's for people to use to save for RETIREMENT?

I can't take the ulcer of both sets of parents not spending their money. I want to shake them both. My in-laws are complaining when I said "just blow it on buying the retirement house you want and sell the two story homes you say is difficult to clean." I hear only FEAR.

My mom's answer is "the Roth IRA is for you and the kids." I write this as I slam my head on the table. My MIL says "oh but that retirement money is for when we're really old." I say "aren't you old enough now that you are retired?" MIL "well not really I mean like maybe 90 or 100,".

I don't think either parents wish to spend what they saved for 40 years. What the hell are they doing?????

We don't need it. We don't want it. We're fine. I can't even tell them how fine we are because we have NO job right now. So they are already anxious enough without us telling them we're fine.

I am going to inherit a ton of money. My DH will likely inherit a ton of money. We have a ton of money for retirement saved. But seriously when will either of our parents think enough is enough?

I don't know how to not end up like them. I have a feeling we already are. I think my DH and I will be FI in 5 years or less. In some ways we already are. But my DH has already shown he is interested in providing everything for the kids and has stated he's not retiring for a long time Financially Independent or not. I nudged him a little recently and he said "the kids need college, wedding, maybe grad school, and it'd be nice to give them maybe even a house DP, and we're going to afford it." So he's got this purpose of working because while we might not need it he's got it in his head we're going to give the kids everything.

I don't know how to people who were "born" savers and raised "savers" can even retire because they have enough?

Our retirement accounts are rebounding nicely as is our taxable account. Granted we are still spending our other money but it's nice to see retirement heading back up. It peaked June 2015 at $575k and now it's back up to $545k.

Actually all accounts are up that are invested. It helps considering we're still a few months away from income. It's april and DH thinks maybe a job if he's lucky by July. His program ends May 6th and they told him 5 weeks to get a job just due to nature of interviews and offers. I'm praying he lands one he likes quickly. While the housing market is still on fire, I'm glad we didn't buy last year because of this uncertainty. I'm also becoming more certain we'll be renting awhile. Hope things continue as planned.

Seriously I wrote a long piece that got lost about why 401ks fail. They fail because people don't save in them. Think I'm joking? I think right now people are talking about how difficult retirement is. But the reality of the lack of pensions hasn't even started to hit. When? I think when the first of Generation X starts to retire we'll see truly what the 401k is worth. I think the majority of Baby Boomers still had pension. I don't think that's the case for Generation X (I'm one) and very few of my friends have pensions.

So the other day at lunch with my DK2 preschool friends and their moms the talk turned to retirement savings. A few women asked about talking to a financial advisor. They were wondering about retirement savings. These women were asking about Roth IRAs and investing 401k. I guess its good they were asking. But seriously?

They went and bought expensive homes and cars (denali, audi, benz, infiniti) but are now asking about retirement? I think we're in big trouble if people who supposedly are "educated" have no idea about retirement savings. I wanted to hit my hit head on the table because more than a few said "oh I leave it to my husband." Um okay, chances are hubby is as clueless as the wife. I don't think people who have no idea how to save or invest probably haven't been doing it.

And no I did not open my mouth, I couldn't. What could I say? That you should have thought about trying to save for retirement before you bought a house so it could fit in the budget? That it should work out before and not after when you put it so low on the priority list that many are in their 30s!!! without any or minimal. I haven't meet anyone I would guess has 6 figures in retirement and they've had pretty good incomes for a long time.

But seriously have you ever spoken up in a conversation when people begin talking about retirement and saving? I find that now that DH and I aren't working I shut my mouth even more. I've never been asked "how are you affording to live?" Only two people we've meet has asked me did you inherit a lot of money or the lotto? Nope. But no one has ever assumed or asked if I were mustachian and did we save a lot? Do we live frugally?

I think soon enough the real problem of 401ks and people not saving retirement will become apparent when the majority of retirees lack a pension. I don't think it's occured yet because many boomers have pensions, but it will.

Have you ever told anyone you were on a budget? Or how to save for retirement?

I won $41 on my kickstarter diet bet. I did lose around 5% instead of just the 4% needed. I'm very happy to have lost the weight more than the money. The money helped but losing weight and getting healthier was a bigger motivation. Anyway I'm debating signing on to do the long term weight loss. This is going to take awhile I think to lose all the weight i want.

I haven't done my easter baskets or stuffed eggs and it's friday night. UGGH. But Happy Easter! We are doing an egg hunt and easter basket first ever at our house. We've gone to a friend's house to easter egg hunt but never in our own yard. We are also having my nephew over for prime rib roast. So nice we are doing our own thing with family. Makes it feel so homey. We're doing our own tradition. Before it was just us and people did their own family thing or it's sunday night. Now we have our own family thing.

This week it also started to click. I went to a friend's house for lunch on Wednesday and while chatting and kids playing it clicked. I felt like I was fitting in and making friends. I mentioned that it's a struggle to make new friends as we move and get older. That I can't expect friendships to sprout up overnight. Well with these women we've been seeing each other weekly since September with our kids in group speech every Wednesday. And here we are March and I felt comfortable and a click.

I feel like we are getting into a groove. Plus it helps spring is gorgeous. Did I mention how pretty and sunny it is? Did I mention how the days are suddenly longer and the sun doesn't seem to go down until 7 pm? That getting out is amazing?

I still pinch myself it's a dream. That a year ago yes I was stuck in seasonal depression mode. I had it every winter. And yes the days were shorter in January here. But at the same time my steps were lighter without snow and shoveling. My hands, head, and neck were warmer without gloves, hat, and scarf. I am wearing short sleeves already.

It's just a very nice time of year and I can't wait for summer. I know I shouldn't gush over just the scenery, and for everyone who says moving is hard, it is. But it does get easier and better. And sometimes just looking at the positives makes it easier. FWIW, where I was I made LOTS of great friends who made life bearable. But every year I could feel the seasons pulling me down.

A house near to us went on the market for $868k for 4 bd/2.5 ba, 3028 sq ft with a 4400 sq ft lot. It went on 3/23/16. The craziness? It was bought last year 2/20/15, yes 13 months ago for $789.9k and no work has been done.

The house was built in 2012 and sold 6/1/12 for $669.9k. Then sold less than 3 years later for $100k more, but now in 13 months the sellers are asking $78k more than they paid or 10% appreciation. How much longer will this type of appreciation last?

The sellers are moving back to where they are from. They bought because of course you make money and renting is a waste. So if we had bought last summer before DH quit, with our cash and credit would we have made 10% in 6 months? I think maybe.

I'm sitting here pondering because we planned on looking this summer. But I'm really nervous this is going to turn ugly. That we'll again buy at the peak of the market in a market we don't fully understand.

Thoughts?

Something interesting I found about our in general spending habits. We do often times spend money daily. But we really don't shop and buy stuff other than groceries. We do have many days of running out to the store for a sale or fresh fruit or veggies. I've found that it's almost every other day. But at the same time since we've moved and had no income we've really curbed eating out. Before I would say we ate out 3-4x/week. Usually one night during the week, Saturday lunch/dinner and Sunday Lunch or Friday dinner. So our eating out was running $200-300/month if not more and not counting special occasions.

Now looking at our spending, yes we do spend between $650-750/month on groceries. But our eating out is less than $100/month. This month we've eaten out $10 so far and haven't any plans to eat out the rest of the month though it might happen. Plus our grocery bill is weirdly under $500 to date and we are trying to clear the freezer and pantry so I predict we'll be under $600 for with 7 days to go. We've already bought the rib roast for Sunday which will a few days of leftovers.

So we talking with friends who have a deep freezer because they hunt. DH and I meet quite a few people now who hunt and I grew up eating a lot of hunted meat (smoked) and fresh fish. I miss it but DH doesn't hunt and we've not really had the opportunity to fish. But now we're in a place where it might be possible. We also live in a house with a garage. So buying a deep freezer after we buy a house is something we're discussing.

Even if we don't hunt (i'm interested in Elk), I just got elk burgers from friends and deer tenderloin from other friends, I was thinking maybe we could go an buy a quarter cow. It might be cheaper and something worth finally investing in.

What are people's thoughts about deep freezers? Do you have one and what do you use it for? Do you hunt?

I think of this year as more of a sabbatical for us than early retirement. We certainly don't have enough to retire now based on where we want to live. We might if we moved somewhere else. We might if we were heavy into real estate investing. But honestly that was never the plan. The plan was always to move and change careers and have a fresh start. Early retirement is probably still in the cards, I'll know more in 12 more weeks, but the move did hurt us financially but at the same time I think it'll pay dividends in our lifestyle.

But the hardest part of the test? The health insurance. First time in our adult lives we've been on our own plan. We've always had employer provided coverage and it's been generous. We've always not worried about what was and wasn't covered. Perhaps it wasn't clear but we had a "general" idea and felt entitled to call and ask.

Now? Well now we buy our own insurance, for which I am eternally grateful that we can even buy it. If not for Obamacare my DH would be uninsured and my kids would have pre-exisiting conditions of asthma and allergies. I would likely be on the fence as to weather I'd be insurable and I'd have a maternity rider probably and be very expensive. As it is we are on a HDHP of $6500 per person and $13k per family deductible health insurance plan. This plan basically covers catastrophic incidents but everything else we self-insure. It still costs us $700/month just to cover ourselves. We don't have dental insurance or vision.

Fortunately for us we've been knock on wood extremely healthy so far during our tenure. My DK have seen the dr for a flu shot and annual exam. They've gone to the dentist once in November and we paid OOP for that and refused x-rays but it still cost us $200/per kid. And an office visit has been $150. We also had an ER visit for stitches (DK1 head hit a post and needed 4 stitches) but I'm unsure as of yet the cost, I assume $500, waiting for my bill in the mail.

I've been to the dentist for the cost of $300 for cleaning and x-rays they insisted. My DH got in under the gun in August and has decided he won't go until he gets a job since once a year according to his last dentist was more than enough. He's got perfect teeth with no cavities or problems. Both of us did annual exams over the summer before moving and now we're about to come due.

What I really need is more birth control. I hate the idea of paying and am considering actually planned parenthood. Truth is that I had filled all our prescriptions for multiple 3 month refills before we lost our prescription coverage for both birth control and asthma. If we had to cover it now the asthma inhalers it would be $200 a month. Fortunately before we lost prescription coverage it was $20/month.

So while our monthly spending is pretty curbed right now I think the biggest factor in "early retirement" is the difficulties not having health insurance as a group plan. Being covered by an employer makes the plans much more reasonable and better coverage than can be bought as an individual.

Right now it looks like DH will be done at the end of April. He'll take sometime to pick a job but will likely start we're thinking July 2016. Basically we'll have gone a 10 months without employer provided health insurance or a paycheck. This experience has definitely made it eye opening how much money we'd need to retire early. Of course the plan was always to be Financial Independent by age 50 and retire by 55. Now I'm not so sure if we would want to do that. I'm worried that at 55 we might have enough to "retire" but what happens if we're back on this crappy health insurance? And worried about more prescriptions or ailments that come with age?

This experience has definitely brought to the forefront the idea that its not easy to retire early. Mr Money Mustaches buys his own health insurance now for $237/month for a family of 3. I can't speak for why it's so cheap but I will say that we're a healthy family of four and it's costing us $700/month for a plan that has higher deductible levels. So there is a lot of variance in "needs" when budgeting for early retirement. Plus his annual medical spending appears to be much lower than ours.

I'm just annoyed with irresponsible pet owners. I have to complain here because it real life I don't know what to do. I was walking DK2 in a stroller for nap yesterday and I saw a neighbor walking with her two dogs let them take a "dump" and not pick it up. I was shocked. In case it's not recalled I have a dog and always walk and pick up his leftovers. But what do you do? Confront this person just walking away? I felt not because sometimes that's me. Sometimes I have forgotten a bag and will come back and pick it up. But I think this woman didn't forget a bag, rather I don't think she ever does it. People who forget a bag have certain demeanor when leaving it behind. Besides the fact in our neighborhood there are SIGNS with dog litter bags to pick up after your dog!

I am annoyed I guess because recently I've found three piles of dog leftovers on my front yard and it's obviously a very large dog versus my small dog. Really? You can't be bothered to pick up after your dog on someone else's yard?

Then as I've mentioned this to a friend, she runs a doggy daycare, she says there are a lot of rotten owners out there. She ended up recently with a 3rd dog, a bull mastiff no less, because the owner dropped the dog off and refused to come back and pick it up. You'd think this was a one time thing? NOPE. This is the 6th dog she's had to rehome because owners come and drop their dogs off at her daycare and treat it like a shelter. Fortunately she's been able to place the dogs with other owners or her staff, but still the nerve and irresponsibility of these dog owners. She questions how they can afford to buy a "pure" bred dog and then pay for daycare for awhile then decide to just leave it behind for someone else to take care off.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just annoyed by owners I question their responsibility. Ugh.