My neighbors both work and have 1 child, 3 months older than my 4 year old. They play great together and she's a lovely girl. I enjoy watching her and she's a truly great kid. My neighbors are nice people. They both have MBAs and are a couple of years older than my DH and I. We live connected by a wall and my 4 year went to school and once said "the little girl living behind the wall, I play with her all the time," to the teachers. When I explained we all had a good laugh.
So you can imagine this family probably makes double what my DH makes. At least that's what my DH and I believe. So $400k/year? Probably but at the minimum $300k.
So what happened is I volunteered to keep their daughter 2 full days next week while they work because they don't have childcare. Their private montessori school is out and they can't find a camp to send her to. The other three days they are going to use backup care agency and have a nanny they don't know come to their house. I feel terrible whenever I see that happen because I know the nanny just sits there with their daughter in the house. And she's pretty bored. So yes I always offer during school vacations or days off to take their kiddo with mine. I've been doing this for years. I can't do everyday of the week because of other obligations but I do try my best.
The same problem will occur at the end of the summer when the week before school they were "waitlisted" for the camp they are in the rest of the summer because they didn't register early enough. They registered in January. I'm not sure I'm ready to take her on 5 full days, so I suggested half day camp for the week with my older kiddo and I'll keep her the rest of the day. I have to find a camp I can afford however.
Right now I've signed my kid up for one camp @ $90/week for half days, and I feel super guilty spending that much. I know they could take vacation but they are taking 2 weeks in July when their parents come to visit and have used another week during spring break and more during Christmas. So they do take vacation to care for their daughter, but this is a lot.
But what stunned me? The price of her camp. Okay her montessori school is ridiculous enough at $35k/year. But the camp? Well try $1200/week. Yes a week! Seriously what they are shelling out in camp is about what my family lives on with our extremely expensive mortgage a month!
To be fair they make double what we make. But even doubling our spending to $10k/month when half of it goes to camp? They shop entirely at whole foods and probably never price compare. I know they dress themselves and their daughter in great name brands and they get boxes daily delivered from online shopping. They never shop in real stores. So even while I assume they are saving a lot, they also spend a lot. Their monthly overhead has got to be high.
But on this forum we always talk about spending and money. So I discussed with my DH if I went back to work and we had all this extra disposable income. Every penny would be disposable obviously since we can survive on his now minus childcare. Yes I may pay right now for childcare but that is a transient expense. So would our lifestyle change? I would hope not.
But the real question is would I be able to spend that freely if I made that much? If we were making $30k/month gross and were saving $5k, taxes $10k, and had $15k to spend would I? I think I would be saving every extra penny and would shorten our time toward financial independence.
I realized no I wouldn't. I can honestly say I can see the exhaustion on my neighbors faces. I can see how they can barely play with their daughter. Their actual comment "we are trying to cut back her tv watching." They never go out on the weekends except to eat. They'll send her to the playground with us but they don't join us. The fact that they are struggling to be able to cover watching her because they are already using all their vacation days. Every day they are on the hamster wheel. So perhaps my DH and I are giving up FI and early retirement, but we're also enjoying our life now. We'll get there eventually but it'll be slower.
What would happen if they were on 1 income? Or two part-time incomes? Right now they give their daughter the best of everything. She'll probably go to college of her choice paid, paid wedding, house DP, etc.
I wonder if perhaps it's the catch-22 of the "upper middle class" dual income lifestyle? The people making enough that they feel they should afford everything but can't. And somehow manage to spend an enormous amount on just "bare bones budget" because their choices force them into needing so much money? The cars, the big mortgage, the private schools, etc?
Recently I've definitely made peace with our lifestyle. In the sense before I wondered if I wasn't "achieving" enough. I am not contributing to society by working. I am not using my degree. I am not producing as a fully functioning adult "should" be. I feel inadequate compared to the many high power dual income couples I meet and know. Where I chat with the nannies rather than moms since I know them better.
But this year I've made peace with it. I've made peace with my decision to stay at home. That I do not need to work to validate myself. That even if I chose to work, money doesn't rule my life. So whatever I chose to do I know our lifestyle will be okay. If my DH loses a job we are not going to crash and burn and never retire.
Rather we could possibly "retire" now. Now I feel secure that I do not need $3M at a minimum to retire. I think $1.5M is adequate if not less. And I don't feel pressured that we have to work until retirement or else we'd be shunned for being lazy.
Money can bring great happiness. But rather being content with what you have is more important.
So I look across the wall and realize that if I went back to work we could be my neighbors. It's possible we'd be financially independent in 2 years. We could possibly save $200k/year or more. But it's also possibly we'd up our consumption just because we'd have to. We'd need more convenience because we have less time. I hope they enjoy their daughter as much as I do. I will say I do have envy sometimes at the thought they could be FI today possibly (not sure about their finances, I think they have a lot in the bank because they make a lot) while we still need to work another 5-10 years to get to where they are.
Have you ever contemplated your money or your life? Did you make a choice to scale back or retire early? Or take a different job or move to slow down? Why?
Different Choices
June 9th, 2014 at 01:56 pm
June 9th, 2014 at 02:13 pm 1402323194
Sometimes it seems like you are making assumptions to make yourself feel better about your own choices, constantly needing to validate your decision to stay at home.
June 9th, 2014 at 02:28 pm 1402324093
June 9th, 2014 at 02:31 pm 1402324261
I don't mind working and don't feel any urgency about retiring early. But I don't want to get trapped in the American way of working more and more and more as I get higher up in the chain. I want the amount of work to stay steady, or even decrease a bit, as we get older. So I'm always evaluating our work and how much of ourselves we pour into it.
And as for increasing lifestyle, yes, there are things I'd like to have that will cost more money, that I plan on having once our finances are completely on track. But some things, like cars and expensive private schools/camps, I'll just never understand.
June 9th, 2014 at 02:35 pm 1402324528
The interesting thing is, I never envy them at all! At least not the choices they make!
June 9th, 2014 at 02:53 pm 1402325591
Because I'm a working mom, I'm a better parent. I love seeing my kiddos at the end of my work day. I'm excited to see them. I guess one could assume that I'm on the hamster wheel because I work and have a demanding job while parenting.
June 9th, 2014 at 03:22 pm 1402327378
June 9th, 2014 at 04:17 pm 1402330630
You say you have found peace with your decisions but it appears you don't have peace to let others live their lives as they choose.
You judge people based on your choices and the standards you have set for your life. Stop doing that.
If 90% of the iceberg is under water, then you see 10%. I think you see even less than that. You don't know all or see all. All you know is what you see. You have no idea how much money they make, if there are other considerations for the way they live.
Regardless, it is their choice.
June 9th, 2014 at 06:09 pm 1402337351
Just as successful families come in all different shapes, sizes, colors, and socio-economic backgrounds, it is most likely problematic to speculate on the success of their family given it is different from yours. We have friends the complete opposite of us: dual income professions (a doctor and a special agent for IRS) with one child. We are one income, tons of kids. Their child is well educated with camp experiences that we could never even imagine giving our kids. And we watch this child occasionally, and we travel to this family's summer home. They like us because were non judgmental and provide their child with the experience of siblings (their child gets on well with most of our older children as well). It doesn't make a lot of sense to play the "what if" game. Be happy with your choices because ultimately you are only responsible for your choices.
June 11th, 2014 at 02:31 am 1402453906
ND Chic I think they work on weekends too. They are not lazy by a long shot I would say. They are just super busy according to them when they talk about working a lot. Do you work at a minimum 8-5 and commute an hour on top of it? What does your spouse do? Do they work as much? This couple does and I know they look tired all the time.
And I can say hamster wheel because who do you think has picked up their daughter? I'm happy to do it. They deserve a break and have no help around. But they themselves will tell you they work long hours.
Kiki definitely. I'm making comments on their own statements. And not observations but rather the fact that I have helped pick up their daughter when they can't. I think they are becoming very financially secure. Probably way more so than we are.
Laura gets it. I believe we have more time but FAR less money and job security and security in general. The couple probably is very close to financial independence.
June 12th, 2014 at 01:34 pm 1402580066
June 21st, 2014 at 11:24 pm 1403393056
We talked about kindergarden and she's thinking private school for her daughter. She asked me if we would. We probably could swing it, but truthfully DH and I were not private school kids and we are firm believers in public schools. I also think I'd homeschool first though I'm not really of the right personality type to do it.
And CB I have a teacher friend who right now during her kids expensive daycare years is paying to work full time. She loves teaching and I am glad she's doing it (cheers for underpaid teachers). But she'll be the first one to say it's exhausting and constantly a struggle they leave the house at 630 in the morning and get home around 5-6 pm. And unlike my neighbors combined I know she said they make a little over $100k. So they are in a much tighter situation. But what can they do? She said they are now looking at leaving the area where we all live to somewhere cheaper than living on the jobs/salaries would be more feasible.